http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy;_ylt=A...luZ25ld3M-

I think this is only the beginning.

Maybe not over, you are right, it will continue.

Quote:One pirate named Ali, in Galkaiyo, Somalia, said “As long as there is no just government in Somalia, we will still be the coast guard,” he said, adding: “If we get an American, we will take revenge.”

Quote:One pirate named Ali, in Galkaiyo, Somalia, said “As long as there is no just government in Somalia, we will still be the coast guard,” he said, adding: “If we get an American, we will take revenge.”

[/quote]

Another reason to shoot first and ask questions later.

SEAL snipers tag their targets from 35 meters away.

The lifeboat was under tow by the Bainbridge because of rough seas. SEAL snipers were on the fantail. When they got clear shots, Game Over.

One Pirate already onboard the Bainbridge serving as a negotiator is now in military custody.

Too bad they don't have a plank hanging off the fantail.

It isn't over. Its just a matter of time before the Pirates offer to trade 20 or 30 hostages ashore for their negotiator.

(04-12-2009 03:52 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  SEAL snipers tag their targets from 35 meters away.

The lifeboat was under tow by the Bainbridge because of rough seas. SEAL snipers were on the fantail. When they got clear shots, Game Over.

One Pirate already onboard the Bainbridge serving as a negotiator is now in military custody.

Too bad they don't have a plank hanging off the fantail.

It isn't over. Its just a matter of time before the Pirates offer to trade 20 or 30 hostages ashore for their negotiator.

If they make that offer, I'd take it.

At some point before very long, I would lay waste to each of the ports that pirates are operating out of, sink one or two of their "fishing boats" in the mouth of each channel to block it, and put enough forces at sea to choke out the pirates, with orders to shoot first and ask questions later. We're not going to get those people to like us, but if they're scared of us that's just about as good. Right now they aren't, but we could change that.

WMD, I'd be interested in your perspective, but one thing this points up to me is that we're spending too much of our acquisition funds on expensive ships to function in a multi-threat war with Russia or China, and as a result we don't have enough hulls to patrol situations like this effectively. We need to come up with a cheaper, smaller, faster, more maneuverable ship type that would be more useful in situations like this. Something with a couple of guns, Harpoon, a close-in anti-air defense capability, a helo or two, and facilities to support SEAL ops, including several different ways to get them into the water--surface and subsurface.

(04-12-2009 03:52 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  SEAL snipers tag their targets from 35 meters away.

The lifeboat was under tow by the Bainbridge because of rough seas. SEAL snipers were on the fantail. When they got clear shots, Game Over.

One Pirate already onboard the Bainbridge serving as a negotiator is now in military custody.

Too bad they don't have a plank hanging off the fantail.

It isn't over. Its just a matter of time before the Pirates offer to trade 20 or 30 hostages ashore for their negotiator.

Everytime I saw what was going on I kept asking myself why they didn't just stick some snipers on the US ship and take the bastards out. Still have no idea why it took this long to do it.

At least it's done and those scum are dead.

Obama ought to order a few warships off Somalia with instructions to sink these cockroaches.

(04-12-2009 04:25 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Everytime I saw what was going on I kept asking myself why they didn't just stick some snipers on the US ship and take the bastards out. Still have no idea why it took this long to do it.
At least it's done and those scum are dead.
Obama ought to order a few warships off Somalia with instructions to sink these cockroaches.

Just sticking some snipers on the US ship and taking them out wouldn't work. You had to get the right situation and then take advantage. I don't care how good the sniper is, you don't get the same results when he's on a platform that's moving with the waves, and his target is moving with a different set of waves. This was a whole lot harder situation to get right than the average person can imagine. And it looks like they did a very good job of getting it right.

The problem with ordering a few warships to sink them is that it's going to take more than a few. We have spent too much money on too few and too expensive ships, and that leaves us short of the kind of assets we need for this. Bainbridge is a great platform if we're fighting WWIII. If we need to get SEALs in the water, it's not so good.

(04-12-2009 04:25 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(04-12-2009 03:52 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  SEAL snipers tag their targets from 35 meters away.

The lifeboat was under tow by the Bainbridge because of rough seas. SEAL snipers were on the fantail. When they got clear shots, Game Over.

One Pirate already onboard the Bainbridge serving as a negotiator is now in military custody.

Too bad they don't have a plank hanging off the fantail.

It isn't over. Its just a matter of time before the Pirates offer to trade 20 or 30 hostages ashore for their negotiator.

Everytime I saw what was going on I kept asking myself why they didn't just stick some snipers on the US ship and take the bastards out. Still have no idea why it took this long to do it.

At least it's done and those scum are dead.

Obama ought to order a few warships off Somalia with instructions to sink these cockroaches.

I think most of the delay was making sure you had a clear shot to all 3 targets at the same time. Remember it was an enclosed lifeboat. It doesn't help to hit one while the other two can kill the hostage.

Getting them on the end of the tow line within spitting distance of the stern helped greatly.

(04-12-2009 04:40 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(04-12-2009 04:25 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(04-12-2009 03:52 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  SEAL snipers tag their targets from 35 meters away.

The lifeboat was under tow by the Bainbridge because of rough seas. SEAL snipers were on the fantail. When they got clear shots, Game Over.

One Pirate already onboard the Bainbridge serving as a negotiator is now in military custody.

Too bad they don't have a plank hanging off the fantail.

It isn't over. Its just a matter of time before the Pirates offer to trade 20 or 30 hostages ashore for their negotiator.

Everytime I saw what was going on I kept asking myself why they didn't just stick some snipers on the US ship and take the bastards out. Still have no idea why it took this long to do it.

At least it's done and those scum are dead.

Obama ought to order a few warships off Somalia with instructions to sink these cockroaches.

I think most of the delay was making sure you had a clear shot to all 3 targets at the same time. Remember it was an enclosed lifeboat. It doesn't help to hit one while the other two can kill the hostage.

Getting them on the end of the tow line within spitting distance of the stern helped greatly.

Good point.
I'm a bit confused about one thing.
They got them on a tow line because of rough seas?
And another account I heard said that the hostage jumped overboard and was pulled out?
Those two statements wouldn't seem to go together. I'm guessing he didn't really jump overboard.
Everybody involved deserves kudos. Including, I'm guessing, the commander-in-chief for letting the folks on the scene run the show.

(04-12-2009 04:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  WMD, I'd be interested in your perspective, but one thing this points up to me is that we're spending too much of our acquisition funds on expensive ships to function in a multi-threat war with Russia or China, and as a result we don't have enough hulls to patrol situations like this effectively. We need to come up with a cheaper, smaller, faster, more maneuverable ship type that would be more useful in situations like this. Something with a couple of guns, Harpoon, a close-in anti-air defense capability, a helo or two, and facilities to support SEAL ops, including several different ways to get them into the water--surface and subsurface.

Special Operations Command has two great things going for it... they get the Military equivalent of a “blank check” and all their spending is classified. But this has some drawbacks because sometime you waste money and get garbage, such as a the “Advanced Seal Delivery System”.. the “dry” mini-sub that we sunk billions into and can’t get it to work.

But you are right… The SEALS need something for low intensity conflict beside those Cyclone class Patrol Boats, which are really just modern PT Boats.

The Navy’s new Littoral Combat Ship will have a Special Warfare mission package, but so far we only have 1 in commission… and it was about 35% over budget. Something needs to be done with US Military Shipbuilding all across the board.

I was looking yesterday and thought the old short hull FFG Perry Class would be perfect for situations like this. It has a 76 mm gun, a couple of 25mm Bushmasters, 2 gas turbine engines, CIWS, Harpoon capability and 2 hangars for Seahawk Helicopters. No AEGIS, no SAMS (not even Sea Sparrow). The electronics are old reliable SPS 49/55. The Aussies and Taiwan build a few of them under license as well. But we scrapped or transferred most of them to foreign nations and we still only have about 25 of the newer “long hull” designs left in the fleet.

(04-12-2009 04:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-12-2009 04:25 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Everytime I saw what was going on I kept asking myself why they didn't just stick some snipers on the US ship and take the bastards out. Still have no idea why it took this long to do it.
At least it's done and those scum are dead.
Obama ought to order a few warships off Somalia with instructions to sink these cockroaches.

Just sticking some snipers on the US ship and taking them out wouldn't work. You had to get the right situation and then take advantage. I don't care how good the sniper is, you don't get the same results when he's on a platform that's moving with the waves, and his target is moving with a different set of waves. This was a whole lot harder situation to get right than the average person can imagine. And it looks like they did a very good job of getting it right.

The problem with ordering a few warships to sink them is that it's going to take more than a few. We have spent too much money on too few and too expensive ships, and that leaves us short of the kind of assets we need for this. Bainbridge is a great platform if we're fighting WWIII. If we need to get SEALs in the water, it's not so good.

Don't we keep older destroyers and other naval ships in boneyards that can be pulled out and refitted if need be?

It would seem to me even older destroyers from the 80's and 90's would be more than sufficient to sink these junk heaps these pirates ride around in.

Admittedly I don't know much about this, I just watch a lot of the military channel.

(04-12-2009 06:03 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(04-12-2009 04:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-12-2009 04:25 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Everytime I saw what was going on I kept asking myself why they didn't just stick some snipers on the US ship and take the bastards out. Still have no idea why it took this long to do it.
At least it's done and those scum are dead.
Obama ought to order a few warships off Somalia with instructions to sink these cockroaches.

Just sticking some snipers on the US ship and taking them out wouldn't work. You had to get the right situation and then take advantage. I don't care how good the sniper is, you don't get the same results when he's on a platform that's moving with the waves, and his target is moving with a different set of waves. This was a whole lot harder situation to get right than the average person can imagine. And it looks like they did a very good job of getting it right.

The problem with ordering a few warships to sink them is that it's going to take more than a few. We have spent too much money on too few and too expensive ships, and that leaves us short of the kind of assets we need for this. Bainbridge is a great platform if we're fighting WWIII. If we need to get SEALs in the water, it's not so good.

Don't we keep older destroyers and other naval ships in boneyards that can be pulled out and refitted if need be?

It would seem to me even older destroyers from the 80's and 90's would be more than sufficient to sink these junk heaps these pirates ride around in.

Admittedly I don't know much about this, I just watch a lot of the military channel.

We keep a few. We sell a lot of them to allies. We even sold one of the Perrys to Bahrain.
We may have a few in the naval reserves, and those would be the best candidates. Unfortunately, one problem with both Knox and Perry classes is that they have high freeboard pretty much all around, which might complicate using them as SEAL/swimmer platforms.
Having seen the condition in which they are maintained, it might be quicker to build a new one than to whip those back into shape.

It seems to me this would be just the ticket for some predator drones with a hellfire. Follow the fishing fleet out every morning the one who takes off from the rest sits at the bottom of the sea. Sink about ten and the fishermen get the clue they need to stay together. Hell dead men tell no tales. No one would even no we did it.

(04-12-2009 06:34 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It seems to me this would be just the ticket for some predator drones with a hellfire. Follow the fishing fleet out every morning the one who takes off from the rest sits at the bottom of the sea. Sink about ten and the fishermen get the clue they need to stay together. Hell dead men tell no tales. No one would even no we did it.

It's a little more complicated than that, but that's one thing that should be in the mix. I'm guessing that as far out as they are, the fishing fleets probably stay out for several days, which adds a bit of complexity, but there are still things that can be done.

I'd consider putting military detachments on some ships, you can load them by helo in the Red Sea and offload them by helo at the other end before they enter territorial waters and run into the diplomatic issues (vice versa for northbound transits, obviously). You'd need a station ship or two at each end to handle the loading/offloading, but that would be a cheaper form of protection than providing escorts.

Also have some surface units patrolling and/or escorting certain merchant ships. Maybe even group a few of the higher risk units (slow, low freeboard) into convoys and escort. Even transitting in groups without an escort would have something of a discouraging effect. Our NATO allies could help us greatly with the escorts, as they really have more of the smaller escort/frigate/corvette/patrol types that are actually better suited for this duty than something like Bainbridge.

Finally, we need to destroy the shore-based infrastructure. Destroy their training camps. Shut down the ports they operate out of. Maybe turn a couple of the shore towns into piles of pebbles. Yeah, there'll be cries that we are attacking "innocent civilians." Civilians, yes; innnocent, probably not. As long as the eastern world knows we won't take that chance, they will use human shields. Making them understand that we're not going to let that work any more would be the best way to end the practice, which in the long run is the best result.

(04-12-2009 06:34 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It seems to me this would be just the ticket for some predator drones with a hellfire. Follow the fishing fleet out every morning the one who takes off from the rest sits at the bottom of the sea. Sink about ten and the fishermen get the clue they need to stay together. Hell dead men tell no tales. No one would even no we did it.

But when somebody makes a mistake.. it gets messy, as the Indians found out.

The pirate “mothership” destroyed by the Indian Navy in the Gulf of Aden was a Thai fishing boat that had been hijacked and whose crew were tied up below decks.

The vessel, which was sunk by INS Tabar, an Indian frigate, on the night of November 18, was the Ekawat Nava 5, a deep-sea trawler, rather than a floating pirate armoury loaded with supplies of ammunition and explosives, as India had claimed.

Wicharn Sirichaiekawat, the manager of the Bangkok-based Sirichai Fisheries, the ship’s owner, said that the facts emerged when one of his crew was found alive, adrift in the Indian Ocean. He said that 14 others were still missing and at least one was confirmed dead. The new development was confirmed by the International Maritime Bureau (IMB).

The news is an embarrassment for India’s Navy, which had been praised for taking the fight to the heavily armed Somali pirates that are terrorising the Suez Canal trade route.

The incident is likely to prompt a review of the terms of engagement by the maritime forces patrolling the Indian Ocean, which include the Royal Navy, security analysts said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo...235404.ece

(04-12-2009 06:49 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The incident is likely to prompt a review of the terms of engagement by the maritime forces patrolling the Indian Ocean, which include the Royal Navy, security analysts said.

Why drones can be part of the solution but not the whole solution. You need human eyes looking at things. There's a role for drones, properly controlled.

I also think we could draw some lines in the ocean, and if you cross that line then we are going to assume carte blanche to shoot you. You're in the wrong place, we're going to board you, and if we don't find any fish we're going to sink you.

:ecu: Trip hasn't posted all day. I think he was one of the snipers who ended this thing. :noisycricket:

(04-12-2009 07:23 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  :ecu: Trip hasn't posted all day. I think he was one of the snipers who ended this thing. :noisycricket:

The three pirates, who were armed with AK-47 rifles, were killed by shooters who were aboard the Bainbridge, Gortney said.

The on-scene commander gave the shooters approval to open fire after seeing that "one of the pirates had an AK-47 leveled at the captain's back," Gortney said.

Seas in the area were getting rough at the time of the rescue, Gortney said, and the Bainbridge was towing the lifeboat presumably to calmer waters with a towline about 82 feet long.

A senior defense official told CNN that each pirate was shot in the head.

After the shooting, special operations personnel shimmied along the tow rope to ensure the pirates were dead and freed Phillips, the official said.

The official added that the pirates had become increasingly agitated over the past day, and negotiations were not going well.

The fourth pirate was aboard the Bainbridge most of the day and told military negotiators that he wasn't going back to the other pirates, according to a defense official with knowledge of the situation.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/...index.html

(04-12-2009 07:23 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  :ecu: Trip hasn't posted all day. I think he was one of the snipers who ended this thing. :noisycricket:

I take great pride in the fact that me and my M107 took out one of the gross idiots who proclaim them selves Pirates.

Even though we are really not supposed to hit 'Human Targets' with a .50, I just had to take the shot ... got him in the Solar Plexus/Upper Thorax and beheaded the fool.

Just another day at the office .....

.

Outside of the three dead Pirates... the stupidest person on Planet Earth.

BERLIN, Germany (CNN) -- A polar bear attacked a woman at Berlin Zoo Friday afternoon after she climbed a fence and jumped into its habitat during feeding time, police said Saturday.

One adult polar bit her several times after she plunged into the moat, police said.

Zoo workers tossed rescue rings toward the woman to hoist her out and distract polar bears swimming nearby, said Goerg Gebhard, a Berlin police officer.

At one point the woman fell back into the water and was grabbed by a bear before she was eventually hoisted to safety.

"They saved her life," Gebhard told CNN.

The woman was severely injured and was being treated at a hospital, police said.

It's unclear why the woman entered the bear habitat, but police issued her a citation for trespassing.



http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/04/...index.html