http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/oba...-than-bush

"THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS EMBRACED BUSH'S POSITION ON
WARANTLESS WIRETAPPING, and goes one step further than the
previous administration. In a motion to dismiss Jewel v.
NSA, the Obama Administration's Department of Justice (DOJ)
made two deeply troubling arguments.

First, they argued, exactly as the Bush Administration did
on countless occasions, that the state secrets privilege
requires the court to dismiss the issue out of hand. They
asserted that simply allowing the case to continue "would
cause exceptionally grave harm to national security." As in
the past, this is a blatant ploy to dismiss the litigation
without allowing the courts to consider the evidence.

Second, the DOJ claimed that the U.S. Government is
completely immune from litigation for illegal spying
because the USA PATRIOT Act renders the U.S. immune from
suit under the two remaining key federal surveillance laws:
the Wiretap Act and the Stored Communications Act. This is
a radical assertion that is utterly unprecedented. No one
-- not the White House, not the Justice Department, not any
member of Congress, and not the Bush Administration -- has
ever interpreted the law this way.

This isn't change we can believe in. This is change for the
worse."

Thanks to Bush, America will never be the same again.

My biggest problem with the Patriot Act, wiretaps and all other such matters has always been future fascist administrations. Kind of like the one we have now.

(04-10-2009 01:39 PM)Paul M Wrote:  My biggest problem with the Patriot Act, wiretaps and all other such matters has always been future fascist administrations. Kind of like the one we have now.

Yup.

This is really disappointing. So much for change.

If you were President, would you want to be the guy who let down his guard, and let another attack happen. Cheney would have a field day with you. (I told you so, or they made us less safe, or atleast we kept you safe)

(04-10-2009 03:10 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  If you were President, would you want to be the guy who let down his guard, and let another attack happen. Cheney would have a field day with you. (I told you so, or they made us less safe, or atleast we kept you safe)

Its ******* unconstitutional...it's not letting your guard down.

(04-10-2009 03:23 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  

(04-10-2009 03:10 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  If you were President, would you want to be the guy who let down his guard, and let another attack happen. Cheney would have a field day with you. (I told you so, or they made us less safe, or atleast we kept you safe)

Its ******* unconstitutional...it's not letting your guard down.

The constitution isn't a suicide pact. This **** has been happening for decades...you just didn't hear about it. Because the media hated Bush, it was all over the front page. It's puzzling why the MSM is going after their darling and exposing him for doing it.

(04-10-2009 03:00 PM)Artifice Wrote:  This is really disappointing. So much for change.

When Obama was a candidate, I pointed out that his total platform couldn't happen, because the numbers simply didn't add up. "Don't worry," I was told, "he's not going to do everything."

To my way of thinking, that begged the question, "OK, so which ones is he going to do and which ones is he not going to do?" No answer.

Now the answer seems to be emerging. He is changing the things that I didn't want changed, and not changing the things that I DID want changed.

This really isn't about your opinion on Obama, Owl. Your worries about him were in the financial/tax area, not this.

And to the mouthbreathers who were okay with this as long as it was a republican in office, you're ridiculous.

Well, lefties, I guess Bush was not so stupid and ignorant, after all.

(04-10-2009 03:52 PM)Artifice Wrote:  This really isn't about your opinion on Obama, Owl. Your worries about him were in the financial/tax area, not this.
And to the mouthbreathers who were okay with this as long as it was a republican in office, you're ridiculous.

Actually, Art, I'm worried about Obama on this too. If you remember, I was tarred and feathered by the righties for opposing patRIOT act and all that crap. One of my biggest concerns about the republicans doing it was what would happen when it got into the hands of someone like this crowd.

It wasn't okay when the republicans were doing it, and it's not okay now that the democrats are doing it. And it wouldn't be okay tomorrow, no matter who is in power.

I still think the biggest portion of blame for the mess we are in now should go to those republicans who knew better but still went along with Shrub in the interests of party unity. Had I been a congressional republican in 2003 or 2004 or 2005, I would have been one of Shrub's biggest critics. And I'm quite certain I'd have gotten plenty of air time, given the media's hatred of Shrub.

(04-10-2009 04:20 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Well, lefties, I guess Bush was not so stupid and ignorant, after all.

I dont think there are any genuine "lefties" on this board, but again, if you think that what W did was okay, then you're an absolute retard.

Orifice,
I see again you are humiliating yourself in public. Your the kind of guy that would throw a drowning man both ends of a rope. I know your kind, and no one cares what you think. Worthless dribble.

(04-13-2009 09:20 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  I see again you are humiliating yourself in public. Your the kind of guy that would throw a drowning man both ends of a rope. I know your kind, and no one cares what you think. Worthless dribble.

It's probably best if you dont post in front of a mirror.

this board use to be filled with mostly Dem/Lefty posters, they've run for cover in the last year. Mach is the only honest one left, he was always the most decent.

my favorite was OUGWave for his pompousness and elitism, though I rarely could read every word of his essay's masquerading as blog post.

(04-10-2009 03:52 PM)Artifice Wrote:  This really isn't about your opinion on Obama, Owl. Your worries about him were in the financial/tax area, not this.

And to the mouthbreathers who were okay with this as long as it was a republican in office, you're ridiculous.

Artifice, this is OLD NEWS. Since the mid 1980's the Echelon system has been up and running and everything electronic-- telephone, email, financial wire, telex, fax--between North America and Europe... or going through European relay stations to someplace else, has been collected.

(04-13-2009 07:10 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(04-10-2009 03:52 PM)Artifice Wrote:  This really isn't about your opinion on Obama, Owl. Your worries about him were in the financial/tax area, not this.

And to the mouthbreathers who were okay with this as long as it was a republican in office, you're ridiculous.

Artifice, this is OLD NEWS. Since the mid 1980's the Echelon system has been up and running and everything electronic-- telephone, email, financial wire, telex, fax--between North America and Europe... or going through European relay stations to someplace else, has been collected.

alot older than that really, but the modern system comes from cold war era as you mention.

guarding against 5th column attacks is nothing new and nothing is unconstitutional about it.

originally phone lines had zero privacy anyway, not till the private sector invented the closed circuit was privacy on phone lines possible.

5th column?

Your apartment has tinfoil wallpaper, doesn't it?

Good Lord Almighty you are batshit insane.

And there's nothing wrong with warrantless wiretapping... other than it being completely unconstitutional.

But rock on fascist. You really do not realize that you are a living breathing parody of what you claim to despise.

(04-10-2009 01:16 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/oba...-than-bush

"THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS EMBRACED BUSH'S POSITION ON
WARANTLESS WIRETAPPING, and goes one step further than the
previous administration. In a motion to dismiss Jewel v.
NSA, the Obama Administration's Department of Justice (DOJ)
made two deeply troubling arguments.

Troubling.... Disconcerting....

.... The next thing you're going to tell me Obama has ordered civilians of another country shot w/o a trial and w/o consulting the UN. The audacity.......