http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy

At the point that the navy noticed Phillips was not in the life boat, they should have lit the life boat up.

Yep and now they're calling reinforcements.

They can shoot all they want, once I hit the water, there is no turning back.

(04-10-2009 01:04 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  At the point that the navy noticed Phillips was not in the life boat, they should have lit the life boat up.

It was around midnight.

Quote:He said the pirate leader had been in direct contact with the lifeboat via a satellite phone but lost contact after Phillips' captors threw the phone — and a two-way radio dropped to them by the U.S. Navy — into the ocean, fearing the Americans were somehow using the equipment to give instructions to the captain. They acted after Phillips' failed effort to escape.

This is encouraging as it gives the opportunity to stave off any other pirate ships without alerting the captors here. (Also, these pirates can't relay GPS coordinates). Isolating these guys as much as possible is probably for the best.

(04-10-2009 01:42 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(04-10-2009 01:04 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  At the point that the navy noticed Phillips was not in the life boat, they should have lit the life boat up.

It was around midnight.

heh? We are the USA, we have the most sophisticated equipment on earth including some nasty good night vision stuff as well as targeting equipment. You meant to tell me we couldn't target that boat and mess it up to the point that even an ant counldn't find refuge on it?

(04-10-2009 01:45 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-10-2009 01:42 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(04-10-2009 01:04 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  At the point that the navy noticed Phillips was not in the life boat, they should have lit the life boat up.

It was around midnight.

heh? We are the USA, we have the most sophisticated equipment on earth including some nasty good night vision stuff as well as targeting equipment. You meant to tell me we couldn't target that boat and mess it up to the point that even an ant counldn't find refuge on it?

Not an area that I know much about, but I'd figure that the Navy ship is somewhat outside of line of sight. Supposedly, they have a UAV over the lifeboat, though. All of that said, how are we to know that they could tell the man in the water was the captain. And, if the shipping line or military chain of command has nixed any military action, then it matters not at all what the navy is capable of doing.

As for my wild speculation, it does seem like good move by the captain and that things could've been brought to an end right then.

On one side you have four pirates in a lifeboat that is about to run out of fuel, with one hostage.
On the other side, you have all the power the US navy can muster in that part of the world, playing under US rules of engagement.

I'd call that an even fight.

Give the US navy a different set of rules of engagement, and this isn't even close. And the next one won't be close either--because there won't be a next one.

I hear that the pirates are sending out additional boats/ships to recover this lifeboat. As soon as they hit international waters, they should be given an opportunity to find out how deep it is.

From what I heard, the FBI is on scene and is "in charge". That's "fantastic"... Meanwhile, a little humor.

After maintaining his silence for two days, President Obama will soon make his first public statement about the pirate attack upon an U.S.-flagged vessel off the Horn of Africa. After several inquiries and a few well-placed bribes, Exurban League has received an early transcript of the President's remarks:

"Good evening. As you know, early yesterday, Somali-based pirates attacked the Maersk Alabama, a freighter carrying relief supplies to Kenya. While we do not yet know all the details, the Alabama's crew re-took control of the vessel and forced the pirates off the ship.

Since the pirates are still holding the captain, I have sent FBI negotiators to facilitate his safe and speedy release. I assure his friends and family that I will not stop until this man-made disaster is resolved in a peaceful, tolerant and ecologically-sound manner.

Obviously, this incident has raised many concerns among Americans. There have been calls for justice and even violence against the misguided perpetrators. But such an emotional reaction has led to the disparagement of entire groups with which we are unfamiliar. We have seen this throughout history.

For too long, America has been too dismissive of the proud culture and invaluable contributions of the Pirate Community. Whether it is their pioneering work with prosthetics, husbandry of tropical birds or fanciful fashion sense, America owes a deep debt to Pirates.

The past eight years have shown a failure to appreciate the historic role of these noble seafarers. Instead of celebrating their entreprenuerial spirit and seeking to partner with them to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

Some of us wonder if our current Overseas Contingency Operation would even be needed had the last administration not been so quick to label Pirates as "thieves," "terrorists" and worse. Such swashbucklaphobia can lead to tragic results, as we have seen this week.

To address this issue, I have instructed Vice President Joe Biden to create a cabinet-level Czar of Pirate Outreach and Buccaneer Interrelation. In addition, June 1-7 has been designated as Pirate Awareness Week, during which all federal buildings will fly the Jolly Roger and sponsor sensitivity training. Thankfully, my American Recovery and Reinvestment Act will fund free grog and hard tack for all attendees.

Finally, to all pirates listening to international broadcasts, shortwave services and ship-to-shore radio, let me say this:

Ahoy, me regret arr relationship has set sail in a scurvy manner. Arr people share many mutual 'alues and concerns on t' raging main. Perchance, could ye handsomely release the cap'n o' the ship and I assure that no harm will come t' ye or ye hearties. Let us smite t' reset button and launch our seabond on a new pegleg. Savvy? Godspeed t' ye and t' ye beauties. Aye, me parrot concurs."

http://exurbanleague.com/2009/04/09/obam...ttack.aspx

Quote:The battle against piracy turned deadly Friday in a separate incident when France's navy freed a sailboat seized last week — one hostage was killed along with two of the bandits. French officials said three pirates were taken into custody.

So does France get credit for being proactive in their battle against piracy?

This is really an embarrassment. Snipe their asses and be done with it.

A seal team in scuba gear with a canister of a mild sleeping gas. Knock them out get the captain free. Let them wake up a few hours later in a different location (further out in the ocean with no gas and no food or water and no ships in sight and a ticking bomb bolted to the floor of their dingy.).

How deliciously ridiculous is this whole pirate episode?

What does it say about the State Of Civilization when the entire civilized world is held hostage at one of the world's busiest sea lanes by pirates in speedboats? Since when could farking pirates reduce the civilized world to harsh words and statements?

Where the F**K are the men of the Civilized world? What level pussitude is required to allow thugs to hold sailors hostage without immediate and total response in force?

(04-10-2009 03:25 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  This is really an embarrassment. Snipe their asses and be done with it.

The boat is enclosed... similar to this one. Hard to get a shot if they avoid standing in the hatch, and you don't know where the hostage is. I thought it was an open boat myself.

You don't know if he is restrained or not. Problem is that the only way to board with the element of surprise is come out of the water. Thats a tricky way to get on, because boat might shift when somebody climbs on the side.

(04-10-2009 03:00 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  

Quote:The battle against piracy turned deadly Friday in a separate incident when France's navy freed a sailboat seized last week — one hostage was killed along with two of the bandits. French officials said three pirates were taken into custody.

So does France get credit for being proactive in their battle against piracy?

More so than we do, at least so far.

This is not as easy a situation to handle as some may think. Any kind of action is going to be hard to bring off. If we can keep them isolated, at some point they are going to have no option but to surrender. They can't kill the captain, he is their only bargaining chip. This will be over in a few days if we can keep them isolated.

The mother ship that is supposedly coming to rescue needs to be sunk. Hopefully there will be enough pirates onboard that when they're dead it will put a real kink into the piracy operations. In any event, our willingness to send a ship filled with pirates to the bottom of the ocean should have something of a chilling effect on the ones who are not killed. I guess the one thing that would put a kink in that would be if there are any hostages hanging around from other operations and the pirates manage to get them on the "moter ship" with them.

One thing this points up to me is that in the world of today there are a lot of missions that the navy is called upon to perform that don't require the full range of capabilities of an Aegis cruiser. Something smaller, along the lines of Italian Lupo or Maestrale or one of the smaller MEKO designs, would be plenty adequate for this mission. Since it would be cheaper and need fewer sailors, we could employ more of them, and thus have more resources to deal with something like this. I really think we need to go back to the Zumwalt "high-low mix" idea instead of throwing billions after state-of-the-art designs that we can build only a few of (like Zumwalt's namesake class). Building some ships like this in concernt with our NATO allies would lengthen their production runs and cut their costs, in addition to providiing us with some cost-effective hulls. A win-win, IMO.

I understand the concept that Merchant Ships can't be armed with cannon and weapons or they have to be inspected by port authorities of every city they stop in. This would cause considerable delays and delays to a shipping company are big $.

However, there's no reason why the crew of these ships shouldn't be carrying Spear Guns and Crossbows to fire on the dingy like vessels that these pirates are using to board ships. Deflate their dingy and these pirates will no longer feel they can attack with impunity. They'll have to bring their boats closer to the merchant ships and therefore lose the element of surprise.

(04-10-2009 05:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The mother ship that is supposedly coming to rescue needs to be sunk. Hopefully there will be enough pirates onboard that when they're dead it will put a real kink into the piracy operations. In any event, our willingness to send a ship filled with pirates to the bottom of the ocean should have something of a chilling effect on the ones who are not killed. I guess the one thing that would put a kink in that would be if there are any hostages hanging around from other operations and the pirates manage to get them on the "moter ship" with them.

One thing this points up to me is that in the world of today there are a lot of missions that the navy is called upon to perform that don't require the full range of capabilities of an Aegis cruiser. Something smaller, along the lines of Italian Lupo or Maestrale or one of the smaller MEKO designs, would be plenty adequate for this mission. Since it would be cheaper and need fewer sailors, we could employ more of them, and thus have more resources to deal with something like this. I really think we need to go back to the Zumwalt "high-low mix" idea instead of throwing billions after state-of-the-art designs that we can build only a few of (like Zumwalt's namesake class). Building some ships like this in concernt with our NATO allies would lengthen their production runs and cut their costs, in addition to providiing us with some cost-effective hulls. A win-win, IMO.

The Zumwalt class DDG-1000 is history. It will cost more for this one ship than the USS G.H.W. Bush. So, cut it, and give Bath Iron Works a couple of more advanced DDG-51's to build.

Its interesting to note that the USS Bainbridge, despite being one of the latest Burke class DDG's.. .doesn't have helicopters on board. That is why they brought in the USS Halyburton, a older Perry class FFG that has 2 Seahawks. They can run UAV's off the Bainbridge, but Helos can come in handy.

I wonder where the SSN is. Perhaps 75 feet under the lifeboat with SEALs?

I think you can cancel the entire LCS program. You already have a LCS class ship-- the Perry DDG's... with better armament. The only difference is that is take more people to crew a Perry class than a LCS. And while the Public Affairs types say the LCS class USS Freedom can operate in less than than 20 feet of water,a "brown water ship"... you know damn well no CO will take a $500 million ship that close in.

(04-10-2009 09:11 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(04-10-2009 05:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The mother ship that is supposedly coming to rescue needs to be sunk. Hopefully there will be enough pirates onboard that when they're dead it will put a real kink into the piracy operations. In any event, our willingness to send a ship filled with pirates to the bottom of the ocean should have something of a chilling effect on the ones who are not killed. I guess the one thing that would put a kink in that would be if there are any hostages hanging around from other operations and the pirates manage to get them on the "moter ship" with them.

One thing this points up to me is that in the world of today there are a lot of missions that the navy is called upon to perform that don't require the full range of capabilities of an Aegis cruiser. Something smaller, along the lines of Italian Lupo or Maestrale or one of the smaller MEKO designs, would be plenty adequate for this mission. Since it would be cheaper and need fewer sailors, we could employ more of them, and thus have more resources to deal with something like this. I really think we need to go back to the Zumwalt "high-low mix" idea instead of throwing billions after state-of-the-art designs that we can build only a few of (like Zumwalt's namesake class). Building some ships like this in concernt with our NATO allies would lengthen their production runs and cut their costs, in addition to providiing us with some cost-effective hulls. A win-win, IMO.

The Zumwalt class DDG-1000 is history. It will cost more for this one ship than the USS G.H.W. Bush. So, cut it, and give Bath Iron Works a couple of more advanced DDG-51's to build.
Its interesting to note that the USS Bainbridge, despite being one of the latest Burke class DDG's.. .doesn't have helicopters on board. That is why they brought in the USS Halyburton, a older Perry class FFG that has 2 Seahawks. They can run UAV's off the Bainbridge, but Helos can come in handy.
I wonder where the SSN is. Perhaps 75 feet under the lifeboat with SEALs?
I think you can cancel the entire LCS program. You already have a LCS class ship-- the Perry DDG's... with better armament. The only difference is that is take more people to crew a Perry class than a LCS. And while the Public Affairs types say the LCS class USS Freedom can operate in less than than 20 feet of water,a "brown water ship"... you know damn well no CO will take a $500 million ship that close in.

I think we should take a look at the smallest ship we could build with a first-class sonar suite, Aegis, a gun or two, a VLS or two, a couple of helos, and some torpedo tubes. Spain basically has that with the Alvaro de Bazan class that comes in just under 6000 tons. That was started as a co-op project with the Dutch and Germans, but Spain withdrew to pursue a slightly different class on its own. That's the kind of thing where I'm thinking we could develop jointly with NATO and save both sides some money.

I also think we need something smaller that maybe doesn't have the range of mission capabilities but can do a heck of a job in situations like this. Platform for a helo or two and a gun or two and Harpoon and you have something that might be of more use than Bainbridge in this situation, and for a whole lot less money.

(04-10-2009 05:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The mother ship that is supposedly coming to rescue needs to be sunk. Hopefully there will be enough pirates onboard that when they're dead it will put a real kink into the piracy operations. In any event, our willingness to send a ship filled with pirates to the bottom of the ocean should have something of a chilling effect on the ones who are not killed. I guess the one thing that would put a kink in that would be if there are any hostages hanging around from other operations and the pirates manage to get them on the "moter ship" with them.

Aren't the "mother ships" they're sending out really captured freighters with their own set of hostages? If so, it seems like you'd risk killing 10-20 hostages if you tried to sink one.