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onlinepole Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Most taxed states
(04-09-2009 07:29 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 08:47 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 04:14 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 04:11 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Minnesota, Wyoming, and Hawaii are all under Republican governance and on the list.

MN and HI have long been regarded as politically left states.

HI also has basic universal healthcare, much of which is funded by tourist $. Much of that comes from the Japanese. If the repubs had half a brain they would have asked Linda Lengle to run with mccain instead of caribou barbie, they would have had a much better chance. Lengle is a 2 term gov in HI


Canada spends half per capita on health care than the US does and has basic universal health coverage. You can allow the drug, insurance and the for profit hospitals continue to screw with you, suck you bank account dry and tell you what kind of health care they'll allow you to get. I'll take non profit single payer all day.
04-09-2009 11:28 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Most taxed states
(04-09-2009 11:28 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Canada spends half per capita on health care than the US does and has basic universal health coverage. You can allow the drug, insurance and the for profit hospitals continue to screw with you, suck you bank account dry and tell you what kind of health care they'll allow you to get. I'll take non profit single payer all day.

They have a different racial makeup.

I think I'd rather keep my healthcare insurance belonging to me, thank you very much.
04-09-2009 11:58 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Most taxed states
BTW, if you want to argue with me, and call me a racist, you will be arguing with facts. Now, in a liberal world, that may work. In a logical world, however, it doesn't.
04-09-2009 11:59 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Most taxed states
(04-09-2009 11:28 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Canada spends half per capita on health care than the US does and has basic universal health coverage. You can allow the drug, insurance and the for profit hospitals continue to screw with you, suck you bank account dry and tell you what kind of health care they'll allow you to get. I'll take non profit single payer all day.

Great system--until you get sick. Or injured.

Canadians who have never needed to use it for more than an amoxycillin prescription love it. Since that fits 60% of them or more, the system scores well in public opinion. Those who've had major problems are not so excited about it. Same as in UK.

Single-payer and/or single-provider systems do a great job of providing routine well-person care cheaply. We currently spend--and waste--a lot of money on that, and a different system would probably deliver those services cheaper.

I personally prefer the French plan. Despite what Michael Moore thinks, it is neither single-payer nor single-provider system. There's a free system for those who need it, and a pay system for those who can afford it. The free system is comparable to VA hospitals here. The pay system is as good as good hospitals here, and cheaper because (1) people don't use the pay system for the stuff they can get relatively well for free, (2) docs get some breaks on malpractice and pass those savings along, and (3) they don't have to provide the free care to people who can't pay and load those costs onto the rest of us. I know, I've been in both systems with my mom. I'd be very happy to have that system here. But you'd never catch me going to the free system for anything more than a tetanus shot.

If we put in something like the Canadian system here, Canadians will hate it because they won't have anywhere close to go for elective care. I'll do what the Brits do and go to France for mine. My Brit friends tell me that Tony Blair got in trouble for reportedly saying something to the effect that, "We don't need to spend more to provide better health care. If we want better health care, we just go to France."

I don't see why we don't just be done with it and go to the French system. Who won't like it? Current Medicaid patients, who'll still get free care, but it won't be up to the standard they currently expect. But we should adopt the French attitude, "It's free, what do you expect?"
04-10-2009 12:23 AM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Most taxed states
(04-08-2009 09:09 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 09:01 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 04:32 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  TEXAS= #50

Total tax burden (per capita) (most recent) by state

Low taxes yep, but some of the highest electric and energy rates in the nation per my friends in Arlington. Buddy of mine pays $500-$800 per month on average for utilities on a 1200 sf home!04-jawdrop

In the summer he must keep his A/C on 60

Plus keep the windows open.
04-10-2009 08:31 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Most taxed states
(04-10-2009 08:31 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 09:09 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 09:01 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  
(04-08-2009 04:32 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  TEXAS= #50
Total tax burden (per capita) (most recent) by state
Low taxes yep, but some of the highest electric and energy rates in the nation per my friends in Arlington. Buddy of mine pays $500-$800 per month on average for utilities on a 1200 sf home!04-jawdrop
In the summer he must keep his A/C on 60
Plus keep the windows open.

He must be doing something wrong. I've got 2400 sf in Montgomery and my electric bill averages $250 or less.
04-10-2009 08:39 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Most taxed states
And the fireplace blazing.
04-10-2009 08:40 AM
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onlinepole Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Most taxed states
(04-09-2009 02:33 AM)TomorrowHerd Wrote:  The more aliens legalized, the more people to vote democrat to keep the welfare and freebies coming in.

The church I worship at has a good number of Hispanics, few if any of them are on welfare. Many if not most of the road & construction crews have large numbers if not a majority of Hispanics, they work their tails off. Illegal some of them are but they have a strong work ethic.
04-10-2009 09:02 PM
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onlinepole Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Most taxed states
(04-09-2009 11:58 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(04-09-2009 11:28 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Canada spends half per capita on health care than the US does and has basic universal health coverage. You can allow the drug, insurance and the for profit hospitals continue to screw with you, suck you bank account dry and tell you what kind of health care they'll allow you to get. I'll take non profit single payer all day.

They have a different racial makeup.

I think I'd rather keep my healthcare insurance belonging to me, thank you very much.

Canada's not lily white anymore and hasn't been for 20 years. There are large numbers of Chinese, Indians, Arabs, Jamaicans and Carribeans in Ontario, BS & Quebec.

Unless you're self employed, "your Health insurance" is largely if not almost entirely determined by what your employer wants to offer you. You could have a great health plan or one that sucks. Given that the drug & insurance companies have greatly inflated the cost of health care in American in order to pay dividends to shareholders (since these companies are public for profit companies); what you get for healthcare is what the drug, insurance and your employer allow you to get and not often what would be best for you. You think you have a "free choice" in a "free market" but that choice is being made for you by people you can't fire (vote out of office), the insurance & drug companies.

Yes you could quit your job and try to find one that offered better health coverage but most if not all healthcare providers are a for profit model not a non profit model like what America used to have until the 1980's.

In Switzerland for example, only basic preventative healthcare coverage(doctor visits, drugs & hospital stays) is single payer; if you want beyond basic coverage for cosmetic surgery or to get your teeth capped, that type of coverage is available through private insurers in a competitive market.

Allowing all people to see a doctor for physicals and annual checks with either a small or no fee will greatly free up emergency rooms which are the only healtcare available to the uninsured and is also the most expensive healthcare delivery mechanism there is. No wonder the US spends as much as we do and gets such little in return.
04-10-2009 09:20 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Most taxed states
(04-10-2009 09:20 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Unless you're self employed, "your Health insurance" is largely if not almost entirely determined by what your employer wants to offer you. You could have a great health plan or one that sucks. Given that the drug & insurance companies have greatly inflated the cost of health care in American in order to pay dividends to shareholders (since these companies are public for profit companies); what you get for healthcare is what the drug, insurance and your employer allow you to get and not often what would be best for you. You think you have a "free choice" in a "free market" but that choice is being made for you by people you can't fire (vote out of office), the insurance & drug companies.

So the solution is to go to a system run by people you can't fire (government bureaucrats) and take away the option you have now to go down the street to use their competitor?

There's an implicit assumption in your argument than profit-seeking entities will do bad things to their customers, whereas non-profit entities have pure motives. That is a really bad assumption. My career has been such that I've worked with a large number of private enterprises and a large number of government bureaucracies, probably about and equal number of each. In my experience, you as a consumer are way, way, way more likely to get a private enterprise that cares about you than a government bureaucrat that cares about you.

I really don't want to trust my health care to the kinds of people who work in government bureaucracies.

Now, something like what you describe in Switzerland, or essentially the same thing that exists in France or Brasil, would be fine with me. You get basic care paid for by your fellow taxpayers, and you pay for the rest or get insurance or wait in the queue. That's a workable model and I would be fine with that. Just don't do what Canada does.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 11:22 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
04-10-2009 09:42 PM
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onlinepole Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Most taxed states
(04-10-2009 09:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(04-10-2009 09:20 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Unless you're self employed, "your Health insurance" is largely if not almost entirely determined by what your employer wants to offer you. You could have a great health plan or one that sucks. Given that the drug & insurance companies have greatly inflated the cost of health care in American in order to pay dividends to shareholders (since these companies are public for profit companies); what you get for healthcare is what the drug, insurance and your employer allow you to get and not often what would be best for you. You think you have a "free choice" in a "free market" but that choice is being made for you by people you can't fire (vote out of office), the insurance & drug companies.

So the solution is to go to a system run by people you can't fire (government bureaucrats) and take away the option you have now to go down the street to use their competitor?
Now, something like what you describe in Switzerland, or essentially the same thing that exists in France or Brasil, would be fine with me. You get basic care paid for by your fellow taxpayers, and you pay for the rest or get insurance or wait in the queue. That's a workable model and I would be fine with that. Just don't do what Canada does.

1) Who says you can't fire 'government workers"; you get rid of those who are responsible for seeing that the health care delivery system works by voting the Administration and/or Congress out of office.

You hold Congress and the Administration to a standard of providing acceptable healthcare administration and service if they don't deliver you can vote they out every 2 to 4 years. You can't do that to a drug/insurance or hospital.

2)The necessity of for profit companies to pay dividends to shareholders is one of the major driving forces behind the skyrocketing cost of healthcare; Medicare is single payer healthcare for seniors and it works extremely well for a large segment of the population at a cost far below that of private sector healthcare.

3) When you get your healthcare delivery system through your employer your options to go elsewhere if the care you receive doesn't measure up are severly if not completely eliminated or significantly more expensive(out of network). Plus if you or someone in your family has a "pre existing condition" (diabetes, high blood pressure), just try getting coverage then from a private for profit services provider.
04-11-2009 12:12 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Most taxed states
The Tax Capital of the World

Quote:States are raising taxes despite the 'stimulus'; New York is No. 1.

New York New York so great they tax you twice...

Quote: Maybe C-Span can make this tax competition a new reality TV series; Carla Bruni, the first lady of France, could host. They can invite politicians from the at least 10 other states that are also considering major tax hikes, including Oregon, Illinois, Wisconsin, Washington, Arizona and New Jersey. One explicit argument for the $787 billion "stimulus" bill was to help states avoid these tax increases that even Keynesians understand are contractionary. Instead, the state politicians are pocketing the federal cash to maintain spending, and raising taxes anyway. Just another spend-and-tax bait and switch.

A reality show worth watching.
04-11-2009 12:57 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Most taxed states
(04-11-2009 12:12 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  1) Who says you can't fire 'government workers"; you get rid of those who are responsible for seeing that the health care delivery system works by voting the Administration and/or Congress out of office.

You hold Congress and the Administration to a standard of providing acceptable healthcare administration and service if they don't deliver you can vote they out every 2 to 4 years. You can't do that to a drug/insurance or hospital.

You can't vote the bureaucrats out every two or four or six years. In fact, you can't get them out at all. They like the way "civil service" rules protect their jobs, but they're not very interested in actually providing any civil service. And it's a whole lot easier to change drug companies or hospitals or insurance companies than it is to change government bureaucracies. No matter how difficult, the first is at least possible; the second isn't.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2009 01:07 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
04-11-2009 01:03 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Most taxed states
NOW, for the love of our country, WE MUST THROW THE BUMS OUT.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2009 02:42 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
04-11-2009 02:42 PM
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