Guess I'll bring it here as well.

Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta before Obama--------------28.99

Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta after Obama's 71 days------49.99

Obama can go **** himself along with the liberals who support this ****. Where do you think they'll turn when people stop smoking? Think they'll just accept that lowered amount of taxes?


Question, say a person opens up their own cigarette-making shop in, say, Augusta. However, they only sell to Georgians. The guy owns the tobacco fields, small factory, and storefront.

Can any of you tell me how it's constitutional for the Federal government to impose taxes on this business that doesn't sell or trade interstate?

In Tobacco country, I think the Libs are about to outlaw smoking in restaraunts after years of trying(North Carolina)...

which will hurt business more, in a State Forbes ranks as the 4th worst to do Business in.

(04-01-2009 09:29 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Guess I'll bring it here as well.
Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta before Obama--------------28.99
Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta after Obama's 71 days------49.99
Obama can go **** himself along with the liberals who support this ****. Where do you think they'll turn when people stop smoking? Think they'll just accept that lowered amount of taxes?
Question, say a person opens up their own cigarette-making shop in, say, Augusta. However, they only sell to Georgians. The guy owns the tobacco fields, small factory, and storefront.
Can any of you tell me how it's constitutional for the Federal government to impose taxes on this business that doesn't sell or trade interstate?

Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 U.S. 294 (1964), basically says that's interstate commerce.

(04-01-2009 09:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-01-2009 09:29 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Guess I'll bring it here as well.
Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta before Obama--------------28.99
Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta after Obama's 71 days------49.99
Obama can go **** himself along with the liberals who support this ****. Where do you think they'll turn when people stop smoking? Think they'll just accept that lowered amount of taxes?
Question, say a person opens up their own cigarette-making shop in, say, Augusta. However, they only sell to Georgians. The guy owns the tobacco fields, small factory, and storefront.
Can any of you tell me how it's constitutional for the Federal government to impose taxes on this business that doesn't sell or trade interstate?

Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 U.S. 294 (1964), basically says that's interstate commerce.

Quote:Ollie's Barbeque was a small, family-owned restaurant that operated in Birmingham, Alabama, and that seated 220 customers. It was located on a state highway and was 11 blocks from an interstate highway. In a typical year, approximately half of the food it purchased from a local supplier originated out-of-state. It catered to local families and white collar workers and provided take-out service to African American customers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katzenbach_v._McClung

I'd say they're different circumstances.

there will be a black market for bars that allow smoking and cigarettes themselves at rate laws and taxes are going.

(04-01-2009 09:48 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(04-01-2009 09:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-01-2009 09:29 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Guess I'll bring it here as well.
Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta before Obama--------------28.99
Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta after Obama's 71 days------49.99
Obama can go **** himself along with the liberals who support this ****. Where do you think they'll turn when people stop smoking? Think they'll just accept that lowered amount of taxes?
Question, say a person opens up their own cigarette-making shop in, say, Augusta. However, they only sell to Georgians. The guy owns the tobacco fields, small factory, and storefront.
Can any of you tell me how it's constitutional for the Federal government to impose taxes on this business that doesn't sell or trade interstate?

Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 U.S. 294 (1964), basically says that's interstate commerce.

Quote:Ollie's Barbeque was a small, family-owned restaurant that operated in Birmingham, Alabama, and that seated 220 customers. It was located on a state highway and was 11 blocks from an interstate highway. In a typical year, approximately half of the food it purchased from a local supplier originated out-of-state. It catered to local families and white collar workers and provided take-out service to African American customers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katzenbach_v._McClung

I'd say they're different circumstances.

Different circumstances, and the ruling is flawed.

What you need to do is make the tobacco farm a co-op w/ multiple owners, each entitled to some share of the harvest...just like the raw milk co-ops!

Or just give up smoking.

Seriously, I think this is a compelling presentation. I'd love to see public schools start challenging kids w/ such scenarios, maybe we wouldn't have a nation of compliant sheep.

(04-01-2009 10:10 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Different circumstances, and the ruling is flawed.

What you need to do is make the tobacco farm a co-op w/ multiple owners, each entitled to some share of the harvest...just like the raw milk co-ops!

Or just give up smoking.

Seriously, I think this is a compelling presentation. I'd love to see public schools start challenging kids w/ such scenarios, maybe we wouldn't have a nation of compliant sheep.

Torch, I can say this at least for my area ....

Dairy Co-Ops have failed the Dairy Farmer here so badly, that if they want to keep their Dairy Farm running, they actually have to have a Regular 40+ Hour a Week job off the Farm just to take up the slack and pay for the Dairy Operations.

Dairy Co-Op's here are akin to the UAW or just Jack-Booted Unions period where the actual Producer of the Raw Product is basically Not Represented at all.

Our Dairy Farmers are pretty much "Milked to Death (to shamelessly use that pun) and they actually Pay More to Produce the Raw Milk Product than they get in return when it is sent to the Production Plant.

Why one would want to keep something as nasty as a Dairy Farm going when it is always in the Red and is a total Loss on every P&L Statement is way beyond my level of logic .... but they love being a Farmer and I guess that is all they need out of the deal.

Beau Coup Dinki Dao if you ask me, but then I was raised on a Dairy Farm that was before the Grand Interstate Dairy Co-Op's came to town and it made us money, food, and was pretty awesome to be a part of .... long long long time ago though.

.

(04-01-2009 09:29 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Where do you think they'll turn when people stop smoking? Think they'll just accept that lowered amount of taxes?

I'm sure they'll gladly accept the lowered costs related to smoking.

Quote:Tobacco-Related Monetary Costs in the USAHealthcare Costs. Total annual public and private health care expenditures caused by smoking: $89.0 billion − Annual Federal and state government smoking-caused Medicaid payments: $28.4 billion [Federal share: $16.2 billion per year. States share: $12.2 billion] − Federal government smoking-caused Medicare expenditures each year: $24.9 billion − Other federal government tobacco-caused healthcare costs (e.g. through VA health care): $8.7 billion

http://www.schizophrenia.com/smokereport.htm

the poster boy for the oppressed smoker, long face and all

(04-01-2009 10:40 AM)Tripster Wrote:  

(04-01-2009 10:10 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Different circumstances, and the ruling is flawed.

What you need to do is make the tobacco farm a co-op w/ multiple owners, each entitled to some share of the harvest...just like the raw milk co-ops!

Or just give up smoking.

Seriously, I think this is a compelling presentation. I'd love to see public schools start challenging kids w/ such scenarios, maybe we wouldn't have a nation of compliant sheep.

Torch, I can say this at least for my area ....

Dairy Co-Ops have failed the Dairy Farmer here so badly, that if they want to keep their Dairy Farm running, they actually have to have a Regular 40+ Hour a Week job off the Farm just to take up the slack and pay for the Dairy Operations.

Trip,

I think we're talking about two different things. I posted a link to an article re: how raw milk sales to consumers is mostly illegal, and it's like the third most pursued illegal substance. In one situation a workaround was to have one dairy owned as a coop by people who wanted raw milk.

How much alcohol can you distill for personal use? How much personal use tobacco can you grow. Can't you avoid all taxes by rolling your own from bulk tobacco?

I like the BO/AO thing....

(04-01-2009 09:36 AM)GGniner Wrote:  In Tobacco country, I think the Libs are about to outlaw smoking in restaraunts after years of trying(North Carolina)...

which will hurt business more, in a State Forbes ranks as the 4th worst to do Business in.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/9/06bes..._land.html

Forbes: NC 3rd best state for business

PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

Quote: "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

Lying scumbag.

(04-01-2009 12:50 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-01-2009 09:36 AM)GGniner Wrote:  In Tobacco country, I think the Libs are about to outlaw smoking in restaraunts after years of trying(North Carolina)...

which will hurt business more, in a State Forbes ranks as the 4th worst to do Business in.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/9/06bes..._land.html

Forbes: NC 3rd best state for business

I got my stories mixed up some, NC has the 4th Highest Unemployment and one of the worst Economies in the Nation right now.

in 2009, things are going downhill and taxes will be going up. Raleigh area is doing ok because of the sectors they have.

not sure about now, however the other night someone I know that owns a Textile/Manufacturing business was thinking about moving to SC for the better operating environment and mentioned they had read NC is among the worst right now with the taxes they would have to pay vs. SC...combined with the bad economy already. He had a plant in California for west coast business that he closed last year. Cali really is a bad state for business in general.

one problem is major budget problems on State level which NC already has fairly high taxes. my dad knows someone that is in Governor Perdues Cabinet, when they tapped the Emergency fund last month, he told him they had no idea where funding for the rest of the year was going to come from. pretty spooked....

(04-01-2009 02:07 PM)GGniner Wrote:  I got my stories mixed up some, NC has the 4th Highest Unemployment and one of the worst Economies in the Nation right now.

I'm sure this new tax will help'em out.

Raleigh is doing better at moment than charlotte.

Education/Research/tech/healthcare vs. Banking/Construction

another problem NC has, which probably makes the Unemployement numbers higher than they should be, is transplants moving here without having a job lined up.

(04-01-2009 09:29 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Guess I'll bring it here as well.

Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta before Obama--------------28.99

Carton of Marlboro Ultra Lights in Augusta after Obama's 71 days------49.99

Obama can go **** himself along with the liberals who support this ****. Where do you think they'll turn when people stop smoking? Think they'll just accept that lowered amount of taxes?

Question, say a person opens up their own cigarette-making shop in, say, Augusta. However, they only sell to Georgians. The guy owns the tobacco fields, small factory, and storefront.

Can any of you tell me how it's constitutional for the Federal government to impose taxes on this business that doesn't sell or trade interstate?

Where is the nearest Indian Reservation to you? Buy the cigs there. They are tax exempt.

Probably Cherokee.

note to Obamabots: This is a Tax Increase on more than just the top 5% and will negatively effect those that are poor the most.

ObamaLiar: "I will only raise taxes on the richest americans"