Part of my enjoyment in reading the political back and forth is seeing that the game never really changes. The fingers are always pointing at the other party and no one really cares about what's best for the country. All everyone really wants is to have things done their way. And to see the other party lose.

I read through the rants about how bad the economy sucks.

Before the election, a lot of Republicans were saying "Hey, don't blame us. Clinton created this mess."

The Democrats were saying, "see, the Republicans have been at the helm for 8 years and this is what we got. Clinton cleaned up the mess from Bush I and now Bush II created a disaster."

Now the election is over.

The Republicans are saying, "Your boy Obama is killing the economy both for the short - and long-term. It's all his fault."

The Democrats are saying, "Bush left such a mess that this type of meltdown was inevitable."

It never ceases to amaze me.

Reagan was an idiot because of all the deficit spending. He was a genius because of the tax breaks he engineered.

Bush I was an idiot because he didn't see a recession coming. He was a genius because he was pro-business.

Clinton was an idiot because he allowed Greenspan to throw away all rules involving debt. He was a genius because he got money flowing through the system.

blah, blah, blah.

The two parties in this country are AWESOME at one thing - bitching about the other party. That's it.

I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.

And frankly, I don't think either party CARES that they don't have a solution. All they really want to do is blame everything bad on the other party. That's the only thing they are focused on.

I have little doubt that there is a whole group of Republican strategists who sit around all day and simply dream up ways to bash the Democrats. Same works in reverse, too.

I used to get really angry about this, but realized that I was wasting my energy. It's not going to change. These jabbering greedheads are going to keep this up until the whole thing implodes and, honestly, maybe even beyond that.

All I can do now is sit back and chuckel.

(03-25-2009 11:36 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  The two parties in this country are AWESOME at one thing - bitching about the other party. That's it.
I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.
And frankly, I don't think either party CARES that they don't have a solution. All they really want to do is blame everything bad on the other party. That's the only thing they are focused on.
I have little doubt that there is a whole group of Republican strategists who sit around all day and simply dream up ways to bash the Democrats. Same works in reverse, too.
I used to get really angry about this, but realized that I was wasting my energy. It's not going to change. These jabbering greedheads are going to keep this up until the whole thing implodes and, honestly, maybe even beyond that.
All I can do now is sit back and chuckel.

Absolutely, positively, 110% agree.
We deserve better.
I'm sorry, we just do.
And we're not getting it from Obama, we didn't get it from Shrub, I don't think we'd have gotten it from McCain. And we sure as h*ll aren't getting it from Pelosi and Reid.

So, what do we do about it?
Much as I'd like to just sit back and chuckle with you, I realize that I have a few years left on this planet, and I don't look forward to what those years are going to be like unless things change drastically.

(03-25-2009 11:36 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.

You're probably right. But it's my personal feeling that lowering personal and corporate taxes, reducing the deficit and ignoring all this global warming crap would help and not hurt the economy. I also feel you can't tax and spend your way to prosperity.

I believe the solutions are there, but only for a party that quits kowtowing to its core constituencies and looks outside the box. Neither democrats nor republicans seem to have any urgency about doing that. Cater to the core and bash the other guy seems to be the mantra of the day.

Well, there's about 20% in the core of the democrats and about 20% in the core of the republicans, and about 60% of us out here who want some solutions. Time for us to get busy, I think.

I do agree with smn that the republicans are probably closer to what will actually work than the democrats are, but neither group is really very close.

Frankly, I don't understand why there isn't a party that runs on this platform.

• Strong national defense
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = No
• Lower taxes
o Republicans = Sometimes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Stay out of my personal life
o Republicans = No
o Democrats= No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Pro-business
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Balanced Budget
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Who knows
• Eliminate Dependence on Foreign Oil
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = Yes
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support Nuclear Power
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support the Second Amendment
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes

(03-25-2009 12:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Frankly, I don't understand why there isn't a party that runs on this platform.

• Strong national defense
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = No
• Lower taxes
o Republicans = Sometimes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Stay out of my personal life
o Republicans = No
o Democrats= No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Pro-business
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Balanced Budget
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Who knows
• Eliminate Dependence on Foreign Oil
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = Yes
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support Nuclear Power
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support the Second Amendment
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes

difference here is Libertarians have everything down on paper, and have never had to actually govern, unlike GOP and Dems. If they did, many of their positions would change dramatically.

Unless they seized absolute power some way, plus the fact they'd have to confront facts on some issues.

(03-25-2009 11:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:36 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  The two parties in this country are AWESOME at one thing - bitching about the other party. That's it.
I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.
And frankly, I don't think either party CARES that they don't have a solution. All they really want to do is blame everything bad on the other party. That's the only thing they are focused on.
I have little doubt that there is a whole group of Republican strategists who sit around all day and simply dream up ways to bash the Democrats. Same works in reverse, too.
I used to get really angry about this, but realized that I was wasting my energy. It's not going to change. These jabbering greedheads are going to keep this up until the whole thing implodes and, honestly, maybe even beyond that.
All I can do now is sit back and chuckel.

Absolutely, positively, 110% agree.
We deserve better.
I'm sorry, we just do.
And we're not getting it from Obama, we didn't get it from Shrub, I don't think we'd have gotten it from McCain. And we sure as h*ll aren't getting it from Pelosi and Reid.

So, what do we do about it?
Much as I'd like to just sit back and chuckle with you, I realize that I have a few years left on this planet, and I don't look forward to what those years are going to be like unless things change drastically.

Run for President. I am sure Rebs,Trippy, SMS, Paul, Blah etc have enough money to get you elected. THey obviously all make over $250,000 since they aren't happy to see the tax rate go up on those over $250,000.

(03-25-2009 12:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Frankly, I don't understand why there isn't a party that runs on this platform.

• Strong national defense
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = No
• Lower taxes
o Republicans = Sometimes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Stay out of my personal life
o Republicans = No
o Democrats= No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Pro-business
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Balanced Budget
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Who knows
• Eliminate Dependence on Foreign Oil
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = Yes
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support Nuclear Power
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support the Second Amendment
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes

Good list, but you left out personal accountability.

(03-25-2009 11:44 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:36 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.

You're probably right. But it's my personal feeling that lowering personal and corporate taxes, reducing the deficit and ignoring all this global warming crap would help and not hurt the economy. I also feel you can't tax and spend your way to prosperity.

Lol. You guys still believe in the trickle down fairytale. WHen will you guys start believing that it doesn't work?

(03-25-2009 01:10 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:44 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:36 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.

You're probably right. But it's my personal feeling that lowering personal and corporate taxes, reducing the deficit and ignoring all this global warming crap would help and not hurt the economy. I also feel you can't tax and spend your way to prosperity.

Lol. You guys still believe in the trickle down fairytale. WHen will you guys start believing that it doesn't work?

The moment morons like yourself can actually articluate what it is and provide economic evidence to support the position it doesn't work.

We all know that won't happen. So...

(03-25-2009 01:10 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:44 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:36 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.

You're probably right. But it's my personal feeling that lowering personal and corporate taxes, reducing the deficit and ignoring all this global warming crap would help and not hurt the economy. I also feel you can't tax and spend your way to prosperity.

Lol. You guys still believe in the trickle down fairytale. WHen will you guys start believing that it doesn't work?

when Obama delivers on purple unicorns.

Trickle Down isn't actually Starting from the Top and Ending at the bottom.

In truth, it starts at the Bottom. Entreprenuers take risk with Capital and Invest it, much of that goes to hire New Employees(i.e. the bottom) on the Front End, with the Bottom End actually being the Entreprenuers at the back end, recouping Profits.

Its never been fully implemented, but what has been implemented lead to unparalleled Economic Prospierity and Growth. Disputing that is ignoring the facts of the last 25 plus years.


never the less, keep beleiving in your Broken Window

(03-25-2009 01:10 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:44 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 11:36 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  I don't think Obama and the Democrats have a solution. I don't think the Republicans do, either.

You're probably right. But it's my personal feeling that lowering personal and corporate taxes, reducing the deficit and ignoring all this global warming crap would help and not hurt the economy. I also feel you can't tax and spend your way to prosperity.

Lol. You guys still believe in the trickle down fairytale. WHen will you guys start believing that it doesn't work?

Robert, lower taxes means more money in your pocket allowing you to spend more. With more money in your possession you can decide how to spend it instead of some government lacky.

(03-25-2009 01:03 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Run for President. I am sure Rebs,Trippy, SMS, Paul, Blah etc have enough money to get you elected. THey obviously all make over $250,000 since they aren't happy to see the tax rate go up on those over $250,000.

Again, anyone who thinks the tax increases will be limited to people making over 250K, while paying for all this **** he's promised, is seriously lacking in the intelligence department.

If the shoe fits.

(03-25-2009 12:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Frankly, I don't understand why there isn't a party that runs on this platform.

• Strong national defense
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = No
• Lower taxes
o Republicans = Sometimes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Stay out of my personal life
o Republicans = No
o Democrats= No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Pro-business
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Balanced Budget
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Who knows
• Eliminate Dependence on Foreign Oil
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = Yes
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support Nuclear Power
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support the Second Amendment
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes

I would give democrats a no on Eliminate Dependence on Foreign Oil. If everything in Obama's energy proposals comes to pass and works as planned, then barring a total collapse of the economy we will import more foreign oil in 2015 than we do today. If you don't believe that, take a look at the numbers and you will see for yourself.

As for the overall platform, that would pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. And I truly believe about 60% of Americans agree. So why isn't anyone doing it?

I don't believe republicans would lower taxes like their fans think they would. They are politicians just as the democrats are and when they campaign the lie the exact same way. Neither one of these parties care about the middle class because the republicans want to make sure the rich are rich, which is ok, and democrats want to empower the poor (even though I don't classify these poor people as the leeches that a lot on this board wish to do). But tell me, which one of our great parties actually care for these people that actually have mortgages, 9-5s, and kids who want to go to college but can't because they are not rich enough to pay for it and not poor enough for grants? The answer is neither one.

(03-25-2009 04:53 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't believe republicans would lower taxes like their fans think they would. They are politicians just as the democrats are and when they campaign the lie the exact same way. Neither one of these parties care about the middle class because the republicans want to make sure the rich are rich, which is ok, and democrats want to empower the poor (even though I don't classify these poor people as the leeches that a lot on this board wish to do). But tell me, which one of our great parties actually care for these people that actually have mortgages, 9-5s, and kids who want to go to college but can't because they are not rich enough to pay for it and not poor enough for grants? The answer is neither one.

Republicans have a reputation of favoring big business but it's big business that provides job to the middle class. Democrats, on the other hand, want to make big business pay for social and other programs through higher taxes. My state has the highest corporate tax rate in the country (and it's rising as I type this) and was recently rated as the most unfriendly state for businesses and that's why they're leaving. As each business leaves the middle class workers lose their jobs and now sink lower in class. They then rely on government programs to feed thenselves thus forcing even more taxes to pay for it - it's an endless cycle in this state.

And it will be like this until people use their heads and realize THEY DONT HAVE TO VOTE FOR ONE OF THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES.

People use there heads but it's for the team that they root for. It's strange that way.

(03-25-2009 12:56 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

(03-25-2009 12:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Frankly, I don't understand why there isn't a party that runs on this platform.

• Strong national defense
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = No
• Lower taxes
o Republicans = Sometimes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Stay out of my personal life
o Republicans = No
o Democrats= No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Pro-business
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Balanced Budget
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Who knows
• Eliminate Dependence on Foreign Oil
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = Yes
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support Nuclear Power
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support the Second Amendment
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes

difference here is Libertarians have everything down on paper, and have never had to actually govern, unlike GOP and Dems. If they did, many of their positions would change dramatically.

Unless they seized absolute power some way, plus the fact they'd have to confront facts on some issues.

You lose all sense of "correctness" when you have to appeal to 51% of the population. MOST people are interested in "what's in it for me"... and while spending less, regulating less and taxing less sounds good, nobody wants to GET less, or cease to be able to force those who don't agree with them to comply with stupid things.

(03-25-2009 12:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Frankly, I don't understand why there isn't a party that runs on this platform.

• Strong national defense
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = No
• Lower taxes
o Republicans = Sometimes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Stay out of my personal life
o Republicans = No
o Democrats= No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Pro-business
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Balanced Budget
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Who knows
• Eliminate Dependence on Foreign Oil
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = Yes
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support Nuclear Power
o Republicans = No
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes
• Support the Second Amendment
o Republicans = Yes
o Democrats = No
o Libertarians = Yes

I disagree with the assertion that liberty minded folks don't want a strong defense. In fact I'd assert the opposite. They just tend to care more about OUR defense than that of other nations.