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Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #1
Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion

Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM


President Obama's climate plan could cost industry close to $2 trillion, nearly three times the White House's initial estimate of the so-called "cap-and-trade" legislation, according to Senate staffers who were briefed by the White House.

A top economic aide to Mr. Obama told a group of Senate staffers last month that the president's climate-change plan would surely raise more than the $646 billion over eight years the White House had estimated publicly, according to multiple a number of staffers who attended the briefing Feb. 26.

"We all looked at each other like, 'Wow, that's a big number,'" said a top Republican staffer who attended the meeting along with between 50 and 60 other Democratic and Republican congressional aides.

The plan seeks to reduce pollution by setting a limit on carbon emissions and allowing businesses and groups to buy allowances, although exact details have not been released.

At the meeting, Jason Furman, a top Obama staffer, estimated that the president's cap-and-trade program could cost up to three times as much as the administration's early estimate of $646 billion over eight years. A study of an earlier cap-and-trade bill co-sponsored by Mr. Obama when he was a senator estimated the cost could top $366 billion a year by 2015.

A White House official did not confirm the large estimate, saying only that Obama aides previously had noted that the $646 billion estimate was "conservative."

"Any revenues in excess of the estimate would be rebated to vulnerable consumers, communities and businesses," the official said.

The Obama administration has proposed using the majority of the money generated from a cap-and-trade plan to pay for its middle-class tax cuts, while using about $120 billion to invest in renewable-energy projects.

Mr. Obama and congressional Democratic leaders have made passing a climate-change bill a top priority. But Republican leaders and moderate to conservative Democrats have cautioned against levying increased fees on businesses while the economy is still faltering.

House Republican leaders blasted the costs in the new estimate.

"The last thing we need is a massive tax increase in a recession, but reportedly that's what the White House is offering: up to $1.9 trillion in tax hikes on every single American who drives a car, turns on a light switch or buys a product made in the United States," said Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner. "And since this energy tax won't affect manufacturers in Mexico, India and China, it will do nothing but drive American jobs overseas."

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/obama_c...93810.html
03-20-2009 06:13 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
Obama is not reacting to the needs of the country, he's simply moving forward with his liberal agenda. He's spending waaaay too much on the theory of global warming instead of concentrating on the factual problems we have now.
03-20-2009 09:18 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
We set aside $650 Billion in the Budget for a Health Care Reform Plan that we haven't even seen. Given the experience with the Medicare Drug Plan expenses that we underestimated by a factor of 10, who in the hell knows how much it will really cost.

Add in the new spending associated with "Comprehensive Immigration Reform." We make present illegals into Permanent Resident Aliens and then they are entitiled to unemployment, Food Stamps, Welfare, AFDC on top of the "back door" Medicaid they already get by their visits to Hospital Emergency Rooms.

Jesus Christ, Obama makes Bush's spending look cheap.
03-21-2009 09:14 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
If they ever locate here in the first place...

Here's the reality. Our "me first" instant gratification approach has led us to the following:
1. Americans consume more and save less than anyone else in the world.
2. Out of the resulting skinny stream of investment capital, the government deficits soak up an inordinately large amount.
3. We are the largest net importer of goods amd services in the world. To provide some perspective, of 163 national units, 62 are net exporters and 101 are net importers; our net imports exceed the other 100 importers combined.

What this means is that our economic survival--not prosperity, but survival--is absolutely dependent upon our ability to attract foreign investment. Otherwise the world will simply drain all the wealth out of the US. We'll be Nicaragua.

In the long run, we need to change that dynamic. In the short run, we need to recognize it and consider it in making short-term decisions.

Can anyone make the case that what Obama has done so far, and/or what he and his henchmen have threatened to do in the future, will fail to make the US less attractive to foreign investors?

Doesn't taxing investment income and redistributing the money to people who will consume more make our structural economic problem better or worse?

This is a worldwide economic problem. At some point, I'm guessing 2011, the world will start to pull out. When that happens, I see a strong likelihood that the US will simply get left behind. They will pull out of it. We won't. What happens then?
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2009 10:49 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-21-2009 10:05 AM
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GGniner Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
(03-21-2009 09:14 AM)WMD Owl Wrote:  We set aside $650 Billion in the Budget for a Health Care Reform Plan that we haven't even seen. Given the experience with the Medicare Drug Plan expenses that we underestimated by a factor of 10, who in the hell knows how much it will really cost.

Add in the new spending associated with "Comprehensive Immigration Reform." We make present illegals into Permanent Resident Aliens and then they are entitiled to unemployment, Food Stamps, Welfare, AFDC on top of the "back door" Medicaid they already get by their visits to Hospital Emergency Rooms.

Jesus Christ, Obama makes Bush's spending look cheap.

they believe this spending is a good thing, its part of their ideology(which they lie about when out of power to attack GOP spending). Pure Demand Side economics

the previous GOP spending was mainly do to political pressures and lobbying influences. What is going on now is beyond that and into a left-wing Ideology.

the big number is Spending as Percent of GDP....it was actually decreasing for the last 20 something years until recently. Now the exact opposite is happening
03-21-2009 10:19 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
Oh my god! We are all going to die! Run for your lives!

Hey SoaF, how many fears is that now? You are a true republican lemming. Always living in fear.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2009 11:43 AM by RobertN.)
03-21-2009 11:41 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
Hey numbnuts, those are B O's teams numbers.
03-21-2009 11:57 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
(03-21-2009 11:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh my god! We are all going to die! Run for your lives!

Hey SoaF, how many fears is that now? You are a true republican lemming. Always living in fear.

Robert,
Do you know any facts?
03-21-2009 12:17 PM
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Tripster Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
.

I think I am going to start a new company .... a huge Conglomerated Monstrosity of a Corporation .....

And call it:

"Super Carbon and Greenhouse Emissions INC".

I will hire 300 Thousand United States workers and then by next year, I will have moved my operation to BFE or the UAE or the tip of the Yucatan ... maybe even the Horn of Africa !!!!

And all it will produce are tons and tons of Greenhouse and Carbon Emissions from these Uber-Huge smoke belching chimneys and we will make $Trillions$ in Ponzi Schemes that will make Madoff look like RobertN ....

And I won't pay a penny in United States Taxes nor will I ever spend a cent on "Carbon Credits" !!!!!!

I am Rogue .... HERE ME BELCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05-stirthepot

.
03-21-2009 03:36 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
If this keeps up will be up to our arms with spotted owls and no g damn jobs!!!!!! SOB
03-21-2009 03:43 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
(03-21-2009 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If this keeps up will be up to our arms with spotted owls and no g damn jobs!!!!!! SOB

Hmm, Mach, an issue where I may be to the left of you.

One problem is that Europe is already implementing something like this and there's a distinct possibility we could end up in a trade war with them if we don't. And that would not be a good thing.

On the other hand, if we implement this and they have a VAT and we don't, we're still trading from a disadvantageous position.
03-21-2009 03:47 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
it was sarcasm............
03-21-2009 03:50 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
(03-21-2009 03:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  it was sarcasm............

Well you do take the labor line on a lot of issues, and that would be a reasonable position for labor to take.

This is one place where I think the lost jobs are justified by other concerns. Plus the rest of the "stimulus" package is going to cost us so many jobs that a few more wouldn't seem to matter.
03-21-2009 03:59 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
The Environment is probably my number one issue, plus I think it would be beneficial for us to lead in green energy.
03-21-2009 08:52 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
Green energy is a great concept. Unfortunately, if you look at the numbers you will realize that Obama's green energy proposals won't amount to much--at least not when compared with the size of the problem. We impoort 70% of the oil we use. Obma's talking about things that will amount to 1% of the problem. Either we need 70 of those, or we need to look for things with bigger impacts. Instead of 1 million electric cars on the road by 2015, let's have 15 million--which means we will need a bunch of new nuke plants to power them.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2009 10:00 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-21-2009 08:58 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
(03-21-2009 11:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh my god! We are all going to die! Run for your lives!

Hey SoaF, how many fears is that now? You are a true republican lemming. Always living in fear.

Robert, please tell me something; during the campaign Obama said Bush spent us into a hole, so how is it possible for Obama to spend his way out of it? It's a double negative thing, ya know, -5 plus -25 does not equal +30. You need to send Obama a calculator and get him to put away his abacus.
03-21-2009 09:02 PM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
Yeah, smn, but Obama doubled the deficit in the first month, and a negative times a negative equals a positive.

Congratulations! You've just completed Liberal Math 101. Three credit hours for you.
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2009 09:23 AM by BlazerFan11.)
03-23-2009 09:22 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
(03-21-2009 11:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh my god! We are all going to die! Run for your lives!

Hey SoaF, how many fears is that now? You are a true republican lemming. Always living in fear.

Uh, it's the left that's pushing the Climate Change fear.
03-23-2009 09:43 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Obama Climate Plan Could Cost $2 Trillion. Will Companies Just Relocate Overseas?
To answer your question, yes.

As Denmark why Lego set up factories in China.

That's why rejecting the Kyoto Protocol was a great start for Bush. Too bad he didn't maintain that level.
03-23-2009 09:45 AM
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