Taxing AIG bonuses at 100% is legal, if the legislators can get that law passed.

Dodd: White House wanted bonuses protected

Rah Roh Raggy.

The hacks in the White House show their incompetence once more.

Love it.

While I understand that there is likely not a damn thing that will happen with this issue...I find it unbelievable that these execs. did not voluntarily decline these bonuses this year.

Since these bonuses were essentially paid through the theft of the people...the names should be made public. Free market ostracism is in order for those that received this cash.

The difference between renegotiating union contracts and completely voiding AIG's contracts is that the unions are one of the largest reasons why the automakers have struggled. The union contracts have crippled the automakers to the point that they cannot compete. It's pretty simple: look at the number of vehicles sold by Toyota and by GM (I think it's them) and then compare their reported net income. You will find that despite selling roughly the same amount of vehicles Toyota made far more money.

Another issue is that performance and contribution to the top line at financial services firms is easily quantifiable. Employees at financial services firms produce revenue directly through their efforts: sales commissions, advisory fees, trading revenues, etc. Whereas auto employees cannot easily quantify their contributions through how well they put in a dashboard, or how fast they bolted in an engine.

You cannot compare the two industries and its problems.

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YOU KNOW GUYS ....

This is not AIG's Corporate Earnings they are PAYING these Bonuses out of !!!!

In case you havn't NOTICED - - THIS IS "BAILOUT MONEY FROM TAX PAYERS" !!!!!

I have to Common Sense believe THAT VOIDS THE FREGGIN CONTRACTS regarding Handing Out Bonuses ....

Any one with me here ?????

Man, this is a FAILED BAILED-OUT INSTITUTION and you are wanting to GIVE THEM TAX PAYER BACKED BONUSES ?????????????????

Then hell !!!! Lets just convict the Bank Robber, but let HIM KEEP ALL of HIS STOLEN MONEY ..... it is FSLIC and FDIC Government Insured I am most Positive .....

GEEZE !!!!!!!

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Um, false. It is clear you have no idea of basic accounting and how financial services firms work. Once you understand both of them (factual knowledge, not your opinion) then feel free to take a position and argue that point.

(03-23-2009 08:59 AM)STLouis Blazer Wrote:  Um, false. It is clear you have no idea of basic accounting and how financial services firms work. Once you understand both of them (factual knowledge, not your opinion) then feel free to take a position and argue that point.

Just to be clear here .... were you Replying to My Post ???

Because if you were hon ... my father worked in the Finance Business almost 30 years .... I believe I understand it pretty well.

AND YES, this is Tax Payer Bailout Money these clowns are wanting to pay their big-headed employees bonuses with ... how do you get it is not ??

They SURELY didn't have ANY BONUS MONEY before the Bailout to hand out these fine lions shares of the profits since THERE WERE NO PROFITS ...

I guess the Public School Way of EVERY ONE WINS even if they LOSE BIG TIME PC Crap has finally taken hold in Corporate Financial America .... heck !!! There are no Bankrupt AIG's, there only those who "Stumbled a Bit" and now need that 'sumpin-sumpin to bling them back up', you know to make IT ALL FAIR, like almost $1 Trillion Dollars in Bailout Money$.

It doesn't matter that YOU FAILED MISERABLY AT YOUR JOB and lost YOUR ASS, to be PC and BE FAIR and not hurt your Wittle Fweeings, WE WILL PAY YOUR VULGAR BONUSES ANYWAY !!!!!!!! GOOD JOB . . WELL DONE . . WAY TOO FAIL HOMEZ'S !!!!!!!!

Am I the only one who sees this as NOT being a Legal Contractual Issue, but rather one of Moral Common Sense ????

......... ummmm ...... "Moral Common Sense" ....... that about raps it up for Politicians, Bankers, AND Grave Robbers !!!!!!

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I'm not going to respond to your entire post but I will provide you with a brief education.

1. Net income is not the best measure of a firm's health

2. Bonuses are not funded solely by net income

3. Salaries and bonuses are an operating expense. AIG generated positive cash from operations

4. A contract is a contract

5. Just because your Dad worked in finance doesn't mean that YOU know finance.

6. Aside from AIG, TARP was a regulatory capital infusion. If you don't know what regulatory capital is then go look it up. You should also know the difference between working capital and regulatory capital. Bonuses are not paid out from regulatory capital, nor are salaries, conferences, utility bills, etc.

7. Let's say the money paid out was taxpayer money. Well, its being paid back to the government at 5% a year. So, if AIG was given $170,000 Million and they pay 5% on that money then the $165 Million in bonuses are more than covered by that interest payment.

8. Do you ***** and moan about people on welfare spend their money? Money that they will never repay? Money that is funded by people who pay taxes?

(03-23-2009 10:54 AM)STLouis Blazer Wrote:  7. Let's say the money paid out was taxpayer money. Well, its being paid back to the government at 5% a year. So, if AIG was given $170 B and they pay 5% on that money then the $165 Million in bonuses are more than covered by that interest payment.

8. Do you ***** and moan about people on welfare spend their money? Money that they will never repay? Money that is funded by people who pay taxes?

#7. I will be King of Atlantis if this gets paid back at all. And if they were so 'Solvent' (Capable of meeting financial obligations) and could have easily paid these characters Bonuses BEFORE the Bailout, then why did we waste all that money Bailing these suckers out ???
If you love throwing money into the Sea and wishing it would come back to you on the tide one day, be my guest ... I would rather let them fall face first into their own demise.
And you said it best .... "Welfare Recipients" are what these Financial Institutions are for all practical purposes.

#8. Welfare .... why would a Liberal 'Equate AIG's Bailout with Welfare Entitlements' ???
I know !!!!! Because they are Liberal and that is all they know.
You stuck your own foot into it on that one and it seems to be heading toward your mouth.

Since being exposed to the Finance Game for 30 years makes me, shall we say, Uninformed compared to you, then pray-tell-us oh Obi Won of the Financial Streams, WHAT MAKES YOU THE EXPERT ????

Show us your wares there on Guru of Spend ....

Toot-in-a-Loo

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I never said AIG would repay all of the money they've been given and I highly doubt they will. That said, they will still make their interest payments and if your argument is that they should return the money well then you'll see it returned in their next interest payment.

Welfare entitlements is the same thing as spending taxpayer money on a bailout. Obviously the person on welfare needs a financial bailout of their own (for reasons possibly different than say AIGs) but they don't have to pay the money back. You are crying about how taxpayer money is being spent when it has to be paid back so how about some consistency and you complain about the taxpayer money that is spent and won't be repaid ("stimulus bill")?

As far as my qualifications go they are certainly more concrete than "my daddy did it.". If my Dad was a rocket scientist that doesn't mean I can go build rockets.

If you care so much about my qualifications then know that I have two degrees in finance, two licenses, and I get paid to do it for a living...just like your Daddy.

(03-18-2009 06:55 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Dodd: White House wanted bonuses protected

CNBC Wrote:The admission comes amid a public furor over the $165 million in bonuses that were paid to AIG executives late last week after the struggling insurance company received nearly $180 billion in government bailout funds.

(03-23-2009 08:59 AM)STLouis Blazer Wrote:  Um, false. It is clear you have no idea of basic accounting and how financial services firms work. Once you understand both of them (factual knowledge, not your opinion) then feel free to take a position and argue that point.

THat isn't surprising. He doesn't have basic knowledge of a lot of things.

(03-23-2009 11:52 AM)STLouis Blazer Wrote:  I never said AIG would repay all of the money they've been given and I highly doubt they will. That said, they will still make their interest payments and if your argument is that they should return the money well then you'll see it returned in their next interest payment.

Welfare entitlements is the same thing as spending taxpayer money on a bailout. Obviously the person on welfare needs a financial bailout of their own (for reasons possibly different than say AIGs) but they don't have to pay the money back. You are crying about how taxpayer money is being spent when it has to be paid back so how about some consistency and you complain about the taxpayer money that is spent and won't be repaid ("stimulus bill")?

As far as my qualifications go they are certainly more concrete than "my daddy did it.". If my Dad was a rocket scientist that doesn't mean I can go build rockets.

If you care so much about my qualifications then know that I have two degrees in finance, two licenses, and I get paid to do it for a living...just like your Daddy.

Well hoo-fukien-rah for your Two Degrees and your Two Licenses !!!!!!

Maybe with all that knowledge and wall paper, YOU too will get a Bailout Bonus ....

And I AM pizzed at this stupid little man's shameful attempt to drag us so deep into the greaser that we will never slosh our way out ...

Stimulus = Sh'tulus as far as I am concerned.

And I am way over that Golden 50 year old mark, so don't "My Daddy Did It" too me (I don't even like my "Daddy" as you call him) .... yet, if I haven't learned something of the Finance Business with over 30 of exposure by proxy from those 50 Plus Years of living on this sh't hole, then I guess I need to go and get me a couple of Degrees in Finance ..... OH THAT's RIGHT !!!!!! I have one in Electronics Engineering .... sorry 'bout that.

So you are telling ALL OF US that it is A-OK to be stupid and bankrupt your self into Oblivion and Beyond, beg and cry like a spanked baby until Congress and the Messiah BAILS you out, then are SMUG Enough to Pay your LOSER STAFF that CAUSED YOUR FAILURE FARGIN BONUSES ?????

And people moaned like a $2 Dollar Hooker over GW going to Camp David during the Iraq Invasion - - and when he DID go see the Troops on the Carrier, all any one could whine about was Chimpy McFlight Suit and Mission Accomplished - - but me being uber-perturbed at paying a gaggle of losers hundreds of millions in Bonuses from Bailout Money is to be egregious in some way ???

We toss Amounts of Dollars like $100 Million or $500 Million around like it was Yesterdays Newspaper Change and it is just fascinating to the N'th Degree how little it means to us 21st Century Folk - - I remember when $100K was a pretty awesome sum of money and yet just a few decades later, we don't care about Dollars of Debt in the Hundreds of Millions and are starting NOT TO CARE about Debt in the Trillions .... who have we become and how on Earth did we get here ????

We are being wiped out economically and financially on a world wide competitive basis, and you applaud Beggers Getting Bonuses from Welfare Money that WE HAVE TO PAY BACK, NOT THEM ... they Default, I pay, I Default, I STILL PAY - - so where is the REAL FAIRNESS AT in that garbage ???

All that money is down the tubes anyway and we all know it - - the Government will NEVER see a dime of it paid back and We All Know It ... the poor Floor Sweeper at the Chicken Dung Factory will be the pathetic winner of that obligation and PEOPLE WANT BONUSES !!!!!

ARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Was the Tea tax imposed against our colonist, as bad as this retro-active 90% AIG tax, with the Govt. picking who they wish to demonize and destroy?

In a just country, this would be enough to get them all kicked out of office.

Quote:I have one in Electronics Engineering .... sorry 'bout that

I think we've established its not in English and its not in Accounting or Finance.

Quote:you applaud Beggers Getting Bonuses from Welfare Money that WE HAVE TO PAY BACK, NOT THEM ... they Default, I pay, I Default, I STILL PAY - - so where is the REAL FAIRNESS AT in that garbage ??

What in the world are you talking about? They (TARP recipients) are paying the money back, not you. And let's quit this "I'm having to pay for X...". Until you see an additional line on your paycheck that says "TARP tax" stop your crying about being a taxpayer who's money is being spent. Look, taxpayer money is wasted every day because that's all politicians do. how do you think they get paid? How do you think they pay for their flights on government aircraft? At the end of the day, you pay taxes and they spend it. Your taxes weren't increased because of TARP so quit your victim taxpayer drivel.

(03-23-2009 01:21 PM)STLouis Blazer Wrote:  What in the world are you talking about? They (TARP recipients) are paying the money back, not you.

Paying back with interest. People forget that.

w/interest and fullly paid back....IF they don't go under and everything goes to plan

(03-23-2009 01:21 PM)STLouis Blazer Wrote:  

Quote:I have one in Electronics Engineering .... sorry 'bout that

I think we've established its not in English and its not in Accounting or Finance.

Quote:you applaud Beggers Getting Bonuses from Welfare Money that WE HAVE TO PAY BACK, NOT THEM ... they Default, I pay, I Default, I STILL PAY - - so where is the REAL FAIRNESS AT in that garbage ??

What in the world are you talking about? They (TARP recipients) are paying the money back, not you. And let's quit this "I'm having to pay for X...". Until you see an additional line on your paycheck that says "TARP tax" stop your crying about being a taxpayer who's money is being spent. Look, taxpayer money is wasted every day because that's all politicians do. how do you think they get paid? How do you think they pay for their flights on government aircraft? At the end of the day, you pay taxes and they spend it. Your taxes weren't increased because of TARP so quit your victim taxpayer drivel.

Oh, so the Great Gatsby of Financiers never uses Quip Slang in his Propah English ??? (a little England English lingo there).

And who the heck are you trying to convince that we won't be the suckers paying this all back in the long run .... what drugs are you on 'cause (unPropah English Quipy Slang there) I want some !!!

They can call it TARP, TURF, or TRAP for all I care, we always end up eating "From The Bottom Up" on these kinds of things anyway. No one expects a Corporate Entity to ever pay back a "so-called loan" and they darn sure never expect them to pay back a Hand-Out ... errrr ... I mean Bail-Out.

And geeze, you and RobertN need to get together and go for some beers or something - - he loves paying taxes just like you do.

Do you realize there was really no Personal Income Tax for a long long time in the United States ..... WOW TRIP, HOW DID WE EVER SURVIVE ???

Better than we are now and if you think I care about paying the filth we have in Congress or the White House a Paycheck, you need to watch some more South Park 'cause (darn Quip Slang lingo) your brain hasn't quite mushed enough yet.

And as you suggest, I am finished with this Drivel'ly Diatribe with you - - it is akin to beating down a concrete wall with a toothpick - - your a Tax Lover and there aren't many things in this world as tight azz'd (well maybe Nancy Pelosi, but that one is all yours).

Par votre congé ..... (that's French just in case you didn't know)

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It would be nice to think we are going to get paid back, but if we experience hyper-inflation devaluing the dollar, then you are paying back the money with a lot cheaper money.

When businesses go bankrupt, contracts are renegotiated or eliminated altogether. Who is to say that "WHEN THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE LAWS agree to bailout a company, that all contracts are renegotiated. This appears to be what happened.

Then DickHe@d Senator DODD and his staff in conjunction with the Treasury Geitner-@sshole ,changed the wording to allow THEM TO GET the BONUSES.

So Trip you are correct, they agreed and then lied about it. You don't need a finance degree to figure that out.

Trip,
I don't like paying taxes but its a fact of life and there are some good things that we get in return: infrstructure and a military (to name two). That said, I am unhappy with the retroactive punitive tax they are trying to impose on me, my fellow employees, and my industry.

I have no doubt that the majority of TARP will be repaid because 1) The banks will hopefully be able to access the capital markets to replace the TARP capital, 2) the banks are tired of the political grandstanding, the attempts to vilify everyone at these firms, and the micro-scrutinity of everything they do, and 3) because banks are still profitable

Not all banks will be able to do it but the lion's share will be repaid with interest. I do question the ability of the automakers and AIG to repay their full principal, especially AIG.