(03-10-2009 12:56 PM)GGniner Wrote:  they are using a "Crisis", or atleast the perception of one, to do every pet Dem/Lib project they can get away with.

"never waste a crisis" as they say.

They being: W, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Zoelleck, et al.

Did she say that because a reporter asked her if she was open to that? Or was that part of a prepared speech?

Since Pelosi is getting pissy about not having an Air Force G-5 at her beck and call 24/7, I bet the next budget has some money to buy a couple of more Executive Jets.

(03-11-2009 12:03 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 12:56 PM)GGniner Wrote:  they are using a "Crisis", or atleast the perception of one, to do every pet Dem/Lib project they can get away with.

"never waste a crisis" as they say.

They being: W, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Zoelleck, et al.

Republicans have no complaints, because they wrote the playbook the dems are following. That's why I was so opposed when the republicans did it.

.

If you will go back and find my post on this garbage, you will find where I said these weasels will try this every couple of months and I even calculated how much Raw Unpayable Debt we would finally end up with in a 4-Year Bambi Term or God Forbid, an 8-Year Bambi Term.

These people have no shame, moral compass, or embarrassment at all.

We are only just gettin' started ...

.

(03-12-2009 01:47 AM)Tripster Wrote:  .

If you will go back and find my post on this garbage, you will find where I said these weasels will try this every couple of months and I even calculated how much Raw Unpayable Debt we would finally end up with in a 4-Year Bambi Term or God Forbid, an 8-Year Bambi Term.

These people have no shame, moral compass, or embarrassment at all.

We are only just gettin' started ...

.

Shall we call you Nostradumbass? Sorry. Couldn't resist. Please don't give me another warning.

(03-12-2009 02:01 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-12-2009 01:47 AM)Tripster Wrote:  .

If you will go back and find my post on this garbage, you will find where I said these weasels will try this every couple of months and I even calculated how much Raw Unpayable Debt we would finally end up with in a 4-Year Bambi Term or God Forbid, an 8-Year Bambi Term.

These people have no shame, moral compass, or embarrassment at all.

We are only just gettin' started ...

.

Shall we call you Nostradumbass?

^ Irony.

(03-11-2009 10:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-11-2009 12:03 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 12:56 PM)GGniner Wrote:  they are using a "Crisis", or atleast the perception of one, to do every pet Dem/Lib project they can get away with.

"never waste a crisis" as they say.

They being: W, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Zoelleck, et al.

Republicans have no complaints, because they wrote the playbook the dems are following. That's why I was so opposed when the republicans did it.

Repubs didn't event this 'playbook' by any means. and if they did, they sure as heck didn't use it to advance any sort of mainline GOP agenda(like tax cuts, SS reform, etc., all pushed through while nobody is watching)....there is a huge difference between that and legit National Security issues right after a major attack in which not only the twin towers but our Pentegon and the Flight 93 attempt on either the Whitehouse or Congress.

The Demorcats, "Progressives", here and in Europe invented the "Moral Equivalent of War". William James talked about it often, he wanted all the benefits, the social possibilities of war, without the cost. Which is probably why in recent years the left has looked to everything from global warming/environmentalism, public health and so called "Diversity" as war equivalents to try and build public unity.


New Republic writer, and FDR(and New Deal) critic wrote the following of it:

Quote:"It is born in crisis, lives on crises, and cannot survive the era of crisis. By the very law of its nature it must create for itself, if it is to continue, fresh crises from year to year. Mussolini came to power in the postwar crisis and became himself a crisis in Italian life.....Hitler's story is the same. And our future is charted out upon the same turbulent road of a permanent crisis"

enter Rahm Emannuel and Hillary Clinton, stupid enough to mention their objectives publicly:

Quote:“Rule one: Never allow a crisis to go to waste,” Rahm Emanuel , Obama's Chief of Staff

Quote:US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today told an audience "never waste a good crisis",

Which is why they are rushing through all these pet projects that have absolutely nothing to do with the Banking issues we face now, which would otherwise not make it through normal political debate. Also, why the Stock Market has been tanking in reaction to this side show.

aside from Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals", of which Obama is a student of and Hillary wrote her Thesis on....there is also the leftist strategy known as the:

Cloward/Piven Strategy of Manufactured Crisis

developed by Columbia University sociologist...

Repubs did write the playbook with the suspension of civil liberties in response to 9/11.
Remember this, 9/11 was entirely preventable in the legal/espionage environment of the day without one single change that has been made subsequently.

(03-12-2009 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Remember this, 9/11 was entirely preventable in the legal/espionage environment of the day without one single change that has been made subsequently.

I disagree. The Gorelick wall that was in place at the time prevented agencies from sharing information between each other. That was a critical blunder.

(03-12-2009 11:32 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(03-12-2009 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Remember this, 9/11 was entirely preventable in the legal/espionage environment of the day without one single change that has been made subsequently.

I disagree. The Gorelick wall that was in place at the time prevented agencies from sharing information between each other. That was a critical blunder.

Agree that was a problem. But that could--and should--have been removed 1/20/01 at the latest. If I had been in Shrub's shoes, I'd have signed that executive order--and a few others--during my inauguration speech. We didn't need the subsequent attacks on civil liberties to accomplish that. Probably should have been a bit cleaner with my language.

(03-12-2009 11:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Repubs did write the playbook with the suspension of civil liberties in response to 9/11.

You think that's the first time that happened? I'm sure there are a ton of German and Japanese Americans that would disagree. Also, I can't name one civil liberty I've lost.

9/11 was an attack on Civil Liberties, not measures taken to protect our Civil Liberties that followed.

Going down this path, aside from Wilson(who did go too far and for wrong reasons in some cases) and FDR........you can trace Commander in Chiefs going back to atleast John Adams(many would argue George Washington) supposedly 'trampling' Civil Liberties. and these guys Wrote the freaking Constitution.

the blunder here is the myth perputuated by the ACLU(on alot of things) but fundamentally that civil liberties are strictly Individual in nature. There is such a thing as Community Rights and a balance must be made given the situations at hand at whatever time in history, to our leaders best judgements. John Adams and the Federalist mostly beleived that France was plotting a coup via some Anti-Federalist(at same time the Anti-Federalist beleived the Federalist were trying to install a monarchy).

the Founders placed the word "Unreasonable" in the 4th Amendment for a purpose. Its not a perfect world, dealing with these situations will never work out perfectly.

.

We would be a lot better off if People would STOP brainwashing them selves that we are a "Democracy instead of a Republic".

A Republic that lives and breaths on the air of Democracy, yet can not achieve either state with any effect or proper equity of rights.

Seems we stay lost because we blind our selves to certain important facts for Convenience Sake ....

.

(03-12-2009 08:39 AM)GGniner Wrote:  

(03-11-2009 10:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-11-2009 12:03 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 12:56 PM)GGniner Wrote:  they are using a "Crisis", or atleast the perception of one, to do every pet Dem/Lib project they can get away with.

"never waste a crisis" as they say.

They being: W, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Zoelleck, et al.

Republicans have no complaints, because they wrote the playbook the dems are following. That's why I was so opposed when the republicans did it.

Repubs didn't event this 'playbook' by any means. and if they did, they sure as heck didn't use it to advance any sort of mainline GOP agenda(like tax cuts, SS reform, etc., all pushed through while nobody is watching)....there is a huge difference between that and legit National Security issues right after a major attack in which not only the twin towers but our Pentegon and the Flight 93 attempt on either the Whitehouse or Congress.

The Demorcats, "Progressives", here and in Europe invented the "Moral Equivalent of War". William James talked about it often, he wanted all the benefits, the social possibilities of war, without the cost. Which is probably why in recent years the left has looked to everything from global warming/environmentalism, public health and so called "Diversity" as war equivalents to try and build public unity.


New Republic writer, and FDR(and New Deal) critic wrote the following of it:

Quote:"It is born in crisis, lives on crises, and cannot survive the era of crisis. By the very law of its nature it must create for itself, if it is to continue, fresh crises from year to year. Mussolini came to power in the postwar crisis and became himself a crisis in Italian life.....Hitler's story is the same. And our future is charted out upon the same turbulent road of a permanent crisis"

enter Rahm Emannuel and Hillary Clinton, stupid enough to mention their objectives publicly:

Quote:“Rule one: Never allow a crisis to go to waste,” Rahm Emanuel , Obama's Chief of Staff

Quote:US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today told an audience "never waste a good crisis",

Which is why they are rushing through all these pet projects that have absolutely nothing to do with the Banking issues we face now, which would otherwise not make it through normal political debate. Also, why the Stock Market has been tanking in reaction to this side show.

Or maybe they are just fixing things Bush f'ed up?

(03-12-2009 12:18 PM)GGniner Wrote:  9/11 was an attack on Civil Liberties, not measures taken to protect our Civil Liberties that followed.

Going down this path, aside from Wilson(who did go too far and for wrong reasons in some cases) and FDR........you can trace Commander in Chiefs going back to atleast John Adams(many would argue George Washington) supposedly 'trampling' Civil Liberties. and these guys Wrote the freaking Constitution.

the blunder here is the myth perputuated by the ACLU(on alot of things) but fundamentally that civil liberties are strictly Individual in nature. There is such a thing as Community Rights and a balance must be made given the situations at hand at whatever time in history, to our leaders best judgements. John Adams and the Federalist mostly beleived that France was plotting a coup via some Anti-Federalist(at same time the Anti-Federalist beleived the Federalist were trying to install a monarchy).

the Founders placed the word "Unreasonable" in the 4th Amendment for a purpose. Its not a perfect world, dealing with these situations will never work out perfectly.

Yeah, there were no rights taken away from us after we were attacked. You are really buying into the Bush teams attempt to make his presidency to actually look successful. Hate to break this news to you, it won't work. THere will always be some(you) who actually believe he was great but most of the US(and the world) really know the truth.

You actually think Obama is doing a stand-up job, Robert, so I don't really think your opinion on success really holds any water.

(03-11-2009 10:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-11-2009 12:03 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 12:56 PM)GGniner Wrote:  they are using a "Crisis", or atleast the perception of one, to do every pet Dem/Lib project they can get away with.

"never waste a crisis" as they say.

They being: W, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Zoelleck, et al.

Republicans have no complaints, because they wrote the playbook the dems are following. That's why I was so opposed when the republicans did it.

The pattern in government, regardless of which faction is running it, is painfully obvious.

The high horse finger pointing of hacks like GGNiner aside, I think anyone with a brain who pays attention can see it. The govt is just getting bolder and bolder in its attempts to push partisan agendas after they scare the hell out of everyone ("crisis!!"), whether its pre-emptive war, social authoritarianism or engineering, "entitlements" (for the poor, or the rich, or multinational companies), etc.

The issue is a rorschach test for just how big of a singleminded, unthinking hack, or honest minded, unbiased voter someone is. The louder they bleet and point fingers at the other side, the less credible they are.

(03-12-2009 02:57 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(03-11-2009 10:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-11-2009 12:03 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 12:56 PM)GGniner Wrote:  they are using a "Crisis", or atleast the perception of one, to do every pet Dem/Lib project they can get away with.

"never waste a crisis" as they say.

They being: W, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Zoelleck, et al.

Republicans have no complaints, because they wrote the playbook the dems are following. That's why I was so opposed when the republicans did it.

The pattern in government, regardless of which faction is running it, is painfully obvious.

The high horse finger pointing of hacks like GGNiner aside, I think anyone with a brain who pays attention can see it. The govt is just getting bolder and bolder in its attempts to push partisan agendas after they scare the hell out of everyone ("crisis!!"), whether its pre-emptive war, social authoritarianism or engineering, "entitlements" (for the poor, or the rich, or multinational companies), etc.

The issue is a rorschach test for just how big of a singleminded, unthinking hack, or honest minded, unbiased voter someone is. The louder they bleet and point fingers at the other side, the less credible they are.

We're back to agreeing. Uh-oh.