Forgive me for becoming a little liberal but I don't think the crime is worth the punishment. And we allow the Saudi's to open schools in this country just so they can teach their kids this ****.

Quote:CAIRO (AP) -- A 75-year-old widow in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced to 40 lashes and four months in jail for mingling with two young men who are not close relatives, drawing new criticism for the kingdom's ultraconservative religious police and judiciary.

The woman's lawyer told The Associated Press on Monday that he would appeal the verdict against Khamisa Sawadi, who is Syrian but was married to a Saudi. The attorney, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem, said the verdict issued March 3 also demands that Sawadi be deported after serving her sentence.

He said his client, who is not serving her sentence yet, was not speaking with the media, and he declined to provide more details about the case.

The newspaper Al-Watan said the woman met with the two 24-year-old men last April after she asked them to bring her five loaves of bread at her home in al-Chamil, a city north of the capital, Riyadh.

Al-Watan identified one man as Fahd al-Anzi, the nephew of Sawadi's late husband, and the other as his friend and business partner Hadiyan bin Zein. It said they were arrested by the religious police after delivering the bread. The men also were convicted and sentenced to lashes and prison.

The court said it based its ruling on "citizen information" and testimony from al-Anzi's father, who accused Sawadi of corruption.

"Because she said she doesn't have a husband and because she is not a Saudi, conviction of the defendants of illegal mingling has been confirmed," the court verdict read.

Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islam prohibits men and women who are not immediate relatives from mingling. It also bars women from driving, and the playing of music, dancing and many movies also are a concern for hard-liners who believe they violate religious and moral values.

Complaints from Saudis have been growing that the religious police and courts are overstepping their broad mandate and interfering in people's lives, and critics lambasted the handling of Sawadi's case.

"How can a verdict be issued based on suspicion?" Laila Ahmed al-Ahdab, a physician who also is a columnist for Al-Watan, wrote Monday. "A group of people are misusing religion to serve their own interests."

Sawadi told the court she considered al-Anzi as her son, because she breast-fed him when he was a baby. But the court denied her claim, saying she didn't provide evidence. In Islamic tradition, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers.

Sawadi commonly asked her neighbors for help after her husband died, said journalist Bandar al-Ammar, who reported the story for Al-Watan. In a recent article, he wrote that he felt the need to report the case "so everybody knows to what degree we have reached."

The woman's conviction came a few weeks after King Abdullah fired the chief of the religious police and a cleric who condoned killing owners of TV networks that broadcast "immoral content." The move was seen as part of an effort to weaken the hard-line Sunni Muslim establishment

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/M...9-15-44-10

Continue to show Arab hatred of women. The LeftyWingNuts scream at the top of their lungs that Terrorist Murders must have rights. But will not utter a word for the barbaric treatment of women by Arab fanatics.

.

Even a half-wit like Forest Gump knows 40 Lashes will put a 75 year old woman into fatal shock ... so this is basically an Execution.

And I am sure the woman and the guys were really juicing up to have some great and really nasty 75 year old sex.

What an ignorant 5th World mentality from a country that is supposed to in the 21st Century.

.

(03-10-2009 10:33 AM)Tripster Wrote:  .

Even a half-wit like Forest Gump knows 40 Lashes will put a 75 year old woman into fatal shock ... so this is basically an Execution.

And I am sure the woman and the guys were really juicing up to have some great and really nasty 75 year old sex.

What an ignorant 5th World mentality from a country that is supposed to in the 21st Century.

.

I would contend that US policy of locking people in cold cells for victimless crime is no less barbaric. This case is insane...and so are most of our laws.

(03-10-2009 10:33 AM)Tripster Wrote:  .

Even a half-wit like Forest Gump knows 40 Lashes will put a 75 year old woman into fatal shock ... so this is basically an Execution.

And I am sure the woman and the guys were really juicing up to have some great and really nasty 75 year old sex.

What an ignorant 5th World mentality from a country that is supposed to in the 21st Century.

.

So, what do we do about this?

Do we live and let live, or do we try to change their behaviour?

Make no mistake, it was our efforts to change this kind of behaviour that brought down the Twin Towers?

Not our buying their oil. Not our failure to ratify the Kyoto Accords. Not any of the reasons that have been given. This.

(03-10-2009 09:31 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Continue to show Arab hatred of women. The LeftyWingNuts scream at the top of their lungs that Terrorist Murders must have rights. But will not utter a word for the barbaric treatment of women by Arab fanatics.

That's why I love seeing the left wing feminists oppose the left wing Islam adorers. We don't see this juxtaposed often enough...it would break up the political left's loose coalition.

(03-10-2009 11:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, what do we do about this?

Do we live and let live, or do we try to change their behaviour.

Just thinking out loud...

Our Sec of State is a woman and when she talks to the Saudis she can politely tell them that this sort of behaviour is seen as barbaric by most of the civilized world.

Then Hollywood can make a movie about this stuff and totally embarrass the Arabs.

And when all that's done, left wing women's rights advocates can protest the Saudi's treatment of women at their embassies here and abroad, the UN, etc. We may have found the reason why Rosie was put on this planet.

(03-10-2009 11:54 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 11:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, what do we do about this?
Do we live and let live, or do we try to change their behaviour.

Just thinking out loud...
Our Sec of State is a woman and when she talks to the Saudis she can politely tell them that this sort of behaviour is seen as barbaric by most of the civilized world.
Then Hollywood can make a movie about this stuff and totally embarrass the Arabs.
And when all that's done, left wing women's rights advocates can protest the Saudi's treatment of women at their embassies here and abroad, the UN, etc. We may have found the reason why Rosie was put on this planet.

If we go that way, watch out Statue of Liberty.

(03-10-2009 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 11:54 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 11:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, what do we do about this?
Do we live and let live, or do we try to change their behaviour.

Just thinking out loud...
Our Sec of State is a woman and when she talks to the Saudis she can politely tell them that this sort of behaviour is seen as barbaric by most of the civilized world.
Then Hollywood can make a movie about this stuff and totally embarrass the Arabs.
And when all that's done, left wing women's rights advocates can protest the Saudi's treatment of women at their embassies here and abroad, the UN, etc. We may have found the reason why Rosie was put on this planet.

If we go that way, watch out Statue of Liberty.

I get tired of all the PC BS we have to tip toe around when dealing with these people. They protest us, they burn our flag and Bush's effigy, we saved them from Saddam so they could continue to use OPEC to strangle us.....

Saudi's still teach their kids the West is evil.

I abhor the exploitation of women and children.

(03-10-2009 12:07 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 11:54 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 11:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, what do we do about this?
Do we live and let live, or do we try to change their behaviour.

Just thinking out loud...
Our Sec of State is a woman and when she talks to the Saudis she can politely tell them that this sort of behaviour is seen as barbaric by most of the civilized world.
Then Hollywood can make a movie about this stuff and totally embarrass the Arabs.
And when all that's done, left wing women's rights advocates can protest the Saudi's treatment of women at their embassies here and abroad, the UN, etc. We may have found the reason why Rosie was put on this planet.

If we go that way, watch out Statue of Liberty.

I get tired of all the PC BS we have to tip toe around when dealing with these people. They protest us, they burn our flag and Bush's effigy, we saved them from Saddam so they could continue to use OPEC to strangle us.....
Saudi's still teach their kids the West is evil.

And as long as we tell them they need to take the veils off their women, they're going to keep teaching their kids that. Is that what you want?

Do you think we can change that? If so, how?

They do things that we find offensive. We do plenty of things that they find offensive. How would you feel if they suddenly started lecturing us about what we needed to change? And there is enough of a record that they could certainly start with Ms. Clinton if she ever started lecturing them.

Look at Dubai. It's the ultimate live-and-let-live environment. And it works reasonably well. Not perfectly, but reasonably well.

So where does it stop. Where do you draw the line? Sexual mutilation is a common practice. Honor Killings is common. Stoning, beheadings. When is it a problem for you?

(03-10-2009 12:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  So where does it stop. Where do you draw the line? Sexual mutilation is a common practice. Honor Killings is common. Stoning, beheadings. When is it a problem for you?

You miss my point.

I'm not saying it's not a problem.

I'm asking what do you propose to do about it?
What consequences are you willing to live with in order to try to change their behaviour?
Was it worth losing the Twin Towers and a hunk of the Pentagon to achieve what progress we have so far in this area?

We can't make the world do exactly what we want it to. And the harder we try, the more we screw it up.

What do we do when other countries are violating human rights.

(03-10-2009 12:28 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  What do we do when other countries are violating human rights.

Remember, they are not violating THEIR concept of human rights.
They are violating ours.

And we do things that are perfectly okay by ours, but strike them as human rights violations.

So who's right?
And who gets to decide that?
And how does whoever's right make whoever's wrong conform?

The answers might be easier if we didn't need their oil. But we do. And we're not doing anything that's going to change that any time soon.

There are many groups that define what a human rights violation is. Arabs get a pass, and I think the world should come down around their ears on this issue. FU(K oil, let them eat sand.

(03-10-2009 11:33 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-10-2009 09:31 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Continue to show Arab hatred of women. The LeftyWingNuts scream at the top of their lungs that Terrorist Murders must have rights. But will not utter a word for the barbaric treatment of women by Arab fanatics.

That's why I love seeing the left wing feminists oppose the left wing Islam adorers. We don't see this juxtaposed often enough...it would break up the political left's loose coalition.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/new...&ATTR=News

1 in 5 Brits say its Okay for a man to beat his wife. Not too far off from the percentage of Muslims they have....and it gets worse.

Quote:Incredibly, they reveal that HALF the public think a woman is at least partly at fault for being raped if she does not clearly say “no”.
A third believe she is partly responsible if she is drunk.
And a quarter think she should take some of the blame if she wears sexy clothing.

The brits solution to all this: setup a parallel Sharia Legal system and live along side each other. They are insane and stupid, it was once a great nation that has its footprint spread out all over the Globe.

Some of the things we could do is to not issue them visas to this country claiming we want our women respected. The world dumped on China during the Olympics because of Tibet, why can't the world beat down the Saudi's over their human rights? They may have what we want but we have what they want - $$$$. A lot of what can be done can occur behind closed doors in a tactful and diplomatic manner.

A good first step would be to close down the Arab public school in Brooklyn called the Khalil Gibran school . Second step. Shut down the Islamic Saudi Academy in Alexandria, Va., where their textbooks disparage Jews and Christians, alike. Then if they want to re-open Saudi must allow Christian, Jewish or even secular school in Saudi Arabia.

Shut down the Center for Islamic Pluralism, where estimates of Saudi spending is upwards of $75 billion to finance construction of thousands of mosques, schools and Islamic centers, the employment of at least 9,000 proselytizers and the printing of millions of books of religious instruction. (SNIP). The Center for Islamic Pluralism says Saudi Arabia has a “pervasive influence on Islamic education in the United States (that) has led to the development of a new breed of American: the jihadist.”

Just say No FU_CKING thank You to them and the Madrassa Coalition.

(03-10-2009 11:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  So, what do we do about this?

Do we live and let live, or do we try to change their behaviour?

Make no mistake, it was our efforts to change this kind of behaviour that brought down the Twin Towers?

Not our buying their oil. Not our failure to ratify the Kyoto Accords. Not any of the reasons that have been given. This.

This is just over the top. Yes, our moralizing is just as irritating to them as theirs is to us. But, what brought down the Twin Towers was the US military presence in Saudi Arabia. That's what al Qaeda stated, that's what they recruited to. In the absence of cultural irritants it may have been more difficult for al Qaeda to recruit, but it's digging pretty deep in saying that it's the only reason - as opposed to one link in a chain - that Islamists have made the US a target. You may as well blame Brittany Spears.