UNC's Dwight Jones was taking online courses after he couldn't qualify after prep school to get into UNC. Apparently he couldn't even pass the online courses, so he was going to play for Valdosta State, until Butch waved his magic wand and UNC discovered a clerical error, so Jones was allowed to enroll at UNC. Last year FlaSt had several players suspended or kicked off their team due to cheating online. My guess is that GaTech's coach is way above board and will not allow any funny business, but if you think many of the other ACC schools won't do anything they can to get their players enrolled, you are only fooling yourself. One of the few advantages ECU used to have is being able to allow nonqualifiers to enroll. My guess is that ECU will see very few, if any, 4-5 stars players in the future since coaches are using online classes to get the ultra talented recruits qualified.

(12-27-2008 05:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 11:02 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The ACC is a bunch of fairly decent teams. But there's not one dominant team in the bunch...

Your potential elite team next season will be looking to house its third SEC team this year on New Year's Eve.

WVU goes for it's 5th straight win over the SEC next season...

(12-27-2008 05:19 PM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  UNC's Dwight Jones was taking online courses after he couldn't qualify after prep school to get into UNC. Apparently he couldn't even pass the online courses, so he was going to play for Valdosta State, until Butch waved his magic wand and UNC discovered a clerical error, so Jones was allowed to enroll at UNC. Last year FlaSt had several players suspended or kicked off their team due to cheating online. My guess is that GaTech's coach is way above board and will not allow any funny business, but if you think many of the other ACC schools won't do anything they can to get their players enrolled, you are only fooling yourself. One of the few advantages ECU used to have is being able to allow nonqualifiers to enroll. My guess is that ECU will see very few, if any, 4-5 stars players in the future since coaches are using online classes to get the ultra talented recruits qualified.

I'll have to look into that UNC matter further. I'd be surprised if he was really struggling if UNC let him in. It's not like UNC has too many places to hide people like that anyway. Somewhat expected with FSU, they're the lowest of the ACC schools academically... and they do have patsy majors.

(12-27-2008 05:56 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 05:19 PM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  UNC's Dwight Jones was taking online courses after he couldn't qualify after prep school to get into UNC. Apparently he couldn't even pass the online courses, so he was going to play for Valdosta State, until Butch waved his magic wand and UNC discovered a clerical error, so Jones was allowed to enroll at UNC. Last year FlaSt had several players suspended or kicked off their team due to cheating online. My guess is that GaTech's coach is way above board and will not allow any funny business, but if you think many of the other ACC schools won't do anything they can to get their players enrolled, you are only fooling yourself. One of the few advantages ECU used to have is being able to allow nonqualifiers to enroll. My guess is that ECU will see very few, if any, 4-5 stars players in the future since coaches are using online classes to get the ultra talented recruits qualified.

I'll have to look into that UNC matter further. I'd be surprised if he was really struggling if UNC let him in. It's not like UNC has too many places to hide people like that anyway. Somewhat expected with FSU, they're the lowest of the ACC schools academically... and they do have patsy majors.

FSU and academics, now thats funny. Did they stop hiring kids to do homework and tests for their football players yet? I guess it is just a matter of time before that will happen again.

(12-27-2008 05:06 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 11:11 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  I think one thing that is helping the ACC is online courses. Many of the ACC schools are getting players that wouldn't normally get qualified, qualified by taking those online courses.

Whatttttttt? Got some proof?

Georgia Tech just withdrew a scholarship offer of a commit b/c they didn't like his grades this year. They didn't send him to online courses, they said "you couldn't hack it here".

GTS...don't sweat it...seeing how it was academic smack coming from an ECU fan!

(12-27-2008 06:17 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  FSU and academics, now thats funny. Did they stop hiring kids to do homework and tests for their football players yet? I guess it is just a matter of time before that will happen again.

You want some real funny ha-ha? FSU is still ranked higher academically than everybody in the SEC except Florida and Vandy. Although Florida does have *ALOT* of patsy majors to hide people in.

(12-27-2008 06:34 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 05:06 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 11:11 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  I think one thing that is helping the ACC is online courses. Many of the ACC schools are getting players that wouldn't normally get qualified, qualified by taking those online courses.

Whatttttttt? Got some proof?

Georgia Tech just withdrew a scholarship offer of a commit b/c they didn't like his grades this year. They didn't send him to online courses, they said "you couldn't hack it here".

GTS...don't sweat it...seeing how it was academic smack coming from an ECU fan!

Win a bowl game, than talk.

(12-27-2008 06:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 06:17 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  FSU and academics, now thats funny. Did they stop hiring kids to do homework and tests for their football players yet? I guess it is just a matter of time before that will happen again.

You want some real funny ha-ha? FSU is still ranked higher academically than everybody in the SEC except Florida and Vandy. Although Florida does have *ALOT* of patsy majors to hide people in.

The key difference is everyone knows what the SEC is all about. At least SEC is not trying to disguise itself as an academic conference or the fact they expanded for "academic" reasons. SEC is a semi-pro league playing in college football. They are still overrated on the field, but they sure get a lot of props from TV homers. Cheating is the norm in the SEC, not the exception.

(12-27-2008 06:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 06:17 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  FSU and academics, now thats funny. Did they stop hiring kids to do homework and tests for their football players yet? I guess it is just a matter of time before that will happen again.

You want some real funny ha-ha? FSU is still ranked higher academically than everybody in the SEC except Florida and Vandy. Although Florida does have *ALOT* of patsy majors to hide people in.

Georgia, Alabama, and Auburn are all ranked higher than FSU in US News and South Carolina and UT are just below.

But if the ACC as a conference can't smack talk in terms of on the field performance, there is always your academic ranking. Maybe we should start a separate board to discuss that?

Cheers,
Neil

(12-27-2008 07:06 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 06:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 06:17 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  FSU and academics, now thats funny. Did they stop hiring kids to do homework and tests for their football players yet? I guess it is just a matter of time before that will happen again.

You want some real funny ha-ha? FSU is still ranked higher academically than everybody in the SEC except Florida and Vandy. Although Florida does have *ALOT* of patsy majors to hide people in.

Georgia, Alabama, and Auburn are all ranked higher than FSU in US News and South Carolina and UT are just below.

But if the ACC as a conference can't smack talk in terms of on the field performance, there is always your academic ranking. Maybe we should start a separate board to discuss that?

Cheers,
Neil

ACC beat SEC on the field this year

(12-27-2008 08:01 PM)EvilVodka1 Wrote:  ACC beat SEC on the field this year

SEC superiority on the field is figment of media imagination. I remember all the homer media stroking the SEC at beginning of the season like they are the NFL south. They are so "superior" they would clean the clock of other conferences blah blah blah. I said in the middle of the season they are overrated as hell outside a couple of teams. LSU being in the top 10 was a freaking joke and the season has proved it right.

ACC beat the SEC. BE has 3 bowl games against the ACC. If BE won all these bowl games, what does it prove? This was suppose to be a down year for the BE BTW.

(12-27-2008 07:06 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  Georgia, Alabama, and Auburn are all ranked higher than FSU in US News and South Carolina and UT are just below.

But if the ACC as a conference can't smack talk in terms of on the field performance, there is always your academic ranking. Maybe we should start a separate board to discuss that?

Cheers,
Neil

I thought we have already covered, numerous times, how US News & World Report rankings are garbage?
- Doesn't do "per capita" ratings
- Ignores program certifications
- Based partially on a SURVEY sent to each school
- Based partially on a SURVEY sent to faculty/staff not belonging to the schools
- Based partially on alumni giving rate (How is this relevant to degree quality, especially since alot of that giving goes to the AD at places like Auburn?)
- Based partially on per-student spending (So if you simply jack the prices way up on tuition ... congrats! You're better in their rankings!)
- Based partially on the difference between expected and actual graduation rate. What the hell does this have to do with the quality of the education? This sounds more like penalizing people on Wall Street because their earnings do or do not meet projections of "analysts".

They don't even completely publish their ranking methodologies, likely because they're too embarrised at how much of a sham it is.

Here's some mathmaticians tearing apart USN&WR's ranking system. By just slightly tweaking priorities in the formula they can greatly shake up the generated results:
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/...e_rankings

In case you haven't gotten the point yet: USN&WR's collegiate rankings are complete and utter joke, sham, failure, laughing stock, pile of manure, etc.

(12-27-2008 08:01 PM)EvilVodka1 Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 07:06 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 06:36 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 06:17 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  FSU and academics, now thats funny. Did they stop hiring kids to do homework and tests for their football players yet? I guess it is just a matter of time before that will happen again.

You want some real funny ha-ha? FSU is still ranked higher academically than everybody in the SEC except Florida and Vandy. Although Florida does have *ALOT* of patsy majors to hide people in.

Georgia, Alabama, and Auburn are all ranked higher than FSU in US News and South Carolina and UT are just below.

But if the ACC as a conference can't smack talk in terms of on the field performance, there is always your academic ranking. Maybe we should start a separate board to discuss that?

Cheers,
Neil

ACC beat SEC on the field this year

Yep, in what was a down year for the SEC, they won the regular season 6-4 with Vandy losing twice. And how many cfb fans even know that?

The ACC may very well have had the best conference top to bottom this year, although I'd go with Big 12 1st and ACC 2nd. And how many cfb fans even know that?

It's all perception.

Cheers,
Neil

(12-27-2008 08:32 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 07:06 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  Georgia, Alabama, and Auburn are all ranked higher than FSU in US News and South Carolina and UT are just below.

But if the ACC as a conference can't smack talk in terms of on the field performance, there is always your academic ranking. Maybe we should start a separate board to discuss that?

Cheers,
Neil

I thought we have already covered, numerous times, how US News & World Report rankings are garbage?
- Doesn't do "per capita" ratings
- Ignores program certifications
- Based partially on a SURVEY sent to each school
- Based partially on a SURVEY sent to faculty/staff not belonging to the schools
- Based partially on alumni giving rate (How is this relevant to degree quality, especially since alot of that giving goes to the AD at places like Auburn?)
- Based partially on per-student spending (So if you simply jack the prices way up on tuition ... congrats! You're better in their rankings!)
- Based partially on the difference between expected and actual graduation rate. What the hell does this have to do with the quality of the education? This sounds more like penalizing people on Wall Street because their earnings do or do not meet projections of "analysts".

They don't even completely publish their ranking methodologies, likely because they're too embarrised at how much of a sham it is.

Here's some mathmaticians tearing apart USN&WR's ranking system. By just slightly tweaking priorities in the formula they can greatly shake up the generated results:
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/...e_rankings

In case you haven't gotten the point yet: USN&WR's collegiate rankings are complete and utter joke, sham, failure, laughing stock, pile of manure, etc.

There isn't a college ranking system out there that isn't a joke. But I haven't seen one yet that would place FSU above Georgia.

Cheers,
Neil

The one I find most reliable is Times Higher Education :
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hy...avcode=137

UGAg and FSU are both not ranked in the Top 200 worldwide here. Appropriate.


Frankly I'd like to see a ranking set that throws out all liberal arts programs. Because, well let's be honest, those are mostly BS patsy programs of little to no value in the real world or in advancing society.

(12-27-2008 08:46 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The one I find most reliable is Times Higher Education :
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hy...avcode=137

UGAg and FSU are both not ranked in the Top 200 worldwide here. Appropriate.

Those are the THE-QS (British UK) rankings that are also widely criticized (even moreso than US News Report) for being subjective since the system highly weights (something like 40% of the total score) how 3000 scholars rate the institution and another 10% by international employers of which no performance indicators are used.

It apparently doesn't look at all at grad rates, admissions criteria, etc. It has also been criticized for favoring institutions in the UK, Australia, New Zealand - with Australia being third overall, ahead of Japan, Germany, and other Western European countries.

Again, there is no perfect system.

Quote:Frankly I'd like to see a ranking set that throws out all liberal arts programs. Because, well let's be honest, those are mostly BS patsy programs of little to no value in the real world or in advancing society.

They have separate rankings for those interested in just measuring mathematics, sciences, and engineering. They are called research rankings.

Cheers,
Neil

(12-27-2008 09:11 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 08:46 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The one I find most reliable is Times Higher Education :
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hy...avcode=137

UGAg and FSU are both not ranked in the Top 200 worldwide here. Appropriate.

Those are the THE-QS (British UK) rankings that are also widely criticized (even moreso than US News Report) for being subjective since the system highly weights (something like 40% of the total score) how 3000 scholars rate the institution and another 10% by international employers of which no performance indicators are used.

It apparently doesn't look at all at grad rates, admissions criteria, etc. It has also been criticized for favoring institutions in the UK, Australia, New Zealand - with Australia being third overall, ahead of Japan, Germany, and other Western European countries.

Again, there is no perfect system.

Quote:Frankly I'd like to see a ranking set that throws out all liberal arts programs. Because, well let's be honest, those are mostly BS patsy programs of little to no value in the real world or in advancing society.

They have separate rankings for those interested in just measuring mathematics, sciences, and engineering. They are called research rankings.

Cheers,
Neil

Graduation rates are only lightly relevant. Graduating from Princeton is just a weeeeee bit tougher than graduating from Mississippi State.

And Research Rankings don't include Business, Legal, Medical, and some other areas of "value" to me.

I'm not very smart so let me make sure I understand. The SEC is full of dumb student-athletes,and dumb students in general. The funny thing is year in and year out in almost every sport the SEC is competing for title after title. Ya'll would think that all ya'll smart folks would figure out a way to stop the SEC.
Things to do when you can't compete
1. Academics, talk about how much tougher you have it versus someone else.
2. Traditions, talk about how the new student-athletes don't understand your history and don't understand the pride.
3.Conspiracy, Espn,Fox,local radio guy,local newspaper,and phil from the local dinner are all hurting recruiting.

We can and do compete. The difference is somebody like GT will not be a Top 10 program every single year to infinity and beyond. Why? Because there's only so many *student* athletes out there. There's PLENTY of athletes though. And that's what football factories depend on. If you want to go into just how ugly these things are in the SEC, I'd be glad to go over the Jan Kemp case at UGA for you.

(12-28-2008 12:59 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  We can and do compete. The difference is somebody like GT will not be a Top 10 program every single year to infinity and beyond. Why? Because there's only so many *student* athletes out there. There's PLENTY of athletes though. And that's what football factories depend on. If you want to go into just how ugly these things are in the SEC, I'd be glad to go over the Jan Kemp case at UGA for you.

Good pts.

Most will probably remember that tough, challenging, grueling "basketball" class that UGA "basketball players" were able to take to help them keep their eligibility status at UGA.


"Coaching Principles and Strategies in Basketball" Final Exam
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ugatest1.html