(12-21-2008 01:21 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

George Kaplan Wrote:I guess the point is that I want ND to start getting a little pushback from the conference, rather than the boys in Providence bending over at every turn, and probably offering to reapply the lube as necessary.

The conference offices don't do anything without presidential buy-in. Maybe you ought to be asking the folks in the big chairs in Morgantown and New Brunswick and Storrs why they continue to sign off on this.

That's a good point on any conference-level decision. The conference commissioner doesn't just make decisions by fiat - he's just reflecting the consensus among the schools' presidents.

(12-18-2008 11:43 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

Frank the Tank Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

Frank the Tank Wrote:

gdayre Wrote:Omni, I would remind you that CBS also have alot invested with the SEC too. Dont put it past them to do what I suggested either. It is from those ties, that I believe in what I am saying. CBS covents the SEC over any and all other leagues.
Look at the deals that ESPN and CBS made with the SEC and to what extent. I wouldnt be a bit surprise if the BE and ND loses both Sun and Gator. They know what kinda of rating they get with the SEC and that is enough with dual ownership of the TV rights of these games to do just what I suggested.

The problem for the Gator Bowl here is that the Capital One Bowl (the highest paying non-BCS bowl), which is usually played in the same time slot as the Gator Bowl, has an exclusivity clause with the SEC and Big Ten that no other bowls can feature those conferences in that time slot. This is why the Cotton and Outback Bowls are played so early in the morning on New Year's Day (or, in the case of the Cotton this year, moved off of New Year's Day altogether). Thus, unless the Gator is willing to take a non-NYD date or play very early in the morning on NYD, it cannot go after an SEC team.

Of course, if the Gator was willing to do that, they could also have a similar ND tie-in with the SEC that exists with the Cotton Bowl.

As already mentioned in a previous post, the Gator has already been through the non January 1 date during much of its history, most recently in the early 90s when it was on TBS and even with teams like Florida and Alabama playing in those games the attendance was not as expected.

It is one of the reasons why they went to NBC back in 1996 in order to get back the January 1 date where it had originally started

And as also previously mentioned, either in this thread or the other two where this has been discussed ad nauseum, the Gator sees itself as being on equal footing with the Citrus and a rightful heir to being the next BCS Bowl game. A move away from January 1 hurts that perception in their eyes.

The only way I see the Gator moving from the January 1 date is if there are no takers for the game other than ESPN. If that were to occur, then the Gator loses out to the Citrus. Somehow I just don't think that the Gator is going to let that happen, but one never knows.

The reality right now is that neither CBS (nor NBC if it were to be approached again about airing the game) have a reason to move the game from the January 1 date and the Gator certainly does not want to move the date.

Cheers,
Neil

I agree with everything that you're saying - my main point was responding to the suggestion that CBS might push for a SEC tie-in for the Gator Bowl, which would not be able to happen unless the Gator was willing to move from NYD (and I understand they don't want to do).

It's fascinating that the Gator Bowl thinks itself of an equal to the Capital One Bowl, though, as that is quite delusional - the Outback Bowl ($3.2 million) pays out more than the Gator ($2.5 million), much less than the Capital One Bowl ($4.25 million, which is the largest non-BCS bowl payout by a substantial margin). Payout amounts are essentially the measure of "prestige" for the non-BCS bowls at the end of the day. Here's a list of this year's payouts, which show the Gator Bowl behind a couple of other bowls (Cotton, Chick-fil-A) and much closer to the Champs Sports and Alamo Bowls:

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2008/...r_friendly

That thinking began when both the Gator and the Citrus tried to outbid the Orange as the fourth BCS Bowl back in the 90s. Supposedly it was the Gator's proposal that was almost accepted over the Orange, but the Orange won out due to its long-standing history.

It continued on back in 2004 or 2005 when ABC/ESPN wanted to go to the BCS Plus One that the Pac-10 and Big Ten nixed. In that plan the model was to add a fifth BCS Bowl and then pick the two best teams from those five games and have an NC game two weeks later. Had it not been nixed the competition was supposedly going to come down to the Citrus, the Gator and the Cotton with the Gator again the forerunner due to the fact that they were willing *gasp* to be the Big East anchor bowl should the league meet the new eligibility criteria for an auto-bid.

I've read some cfb writers/analysts think the higher $$$ involved with the Citrus is actually a drawback for them being elevated to BCS Bowl status (should another bowl be added) because no other bowl will likely pay what they pay for the SEC #2/3 and Big Ten #2/3 match-up.

But if they are elevated over the Gator and the Cotton, look for the Gator to ditch both the ACC and the Big East for that match-up.

Cheers,
Neil

The Citrus Bowl will never become a BCS bowl in it's current condition, and is endanger of losing the Big 10/SEC to Tampa. Neither conference is happy with the conditions at stadium. The City of Orlando is suppose to put $150 million into the stadium that no one plays in just to keep 3 games in town.

(12-23-2008 01:38 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(12-18-2008 11:43 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  That thinking began when both the Gator and the Citrus tried to outbid the Orange as the fourth BCS Bowl back in the 90s. Supposedly it was the Gator's proposal that was almost accepted over the Orange, but the Orange won out due to its long-standing history.

It continued on back in 2004 or 2005 when ABC/ESPN wanted to go to the BCS Plus One that the Pac-10 and Big Ten nixed. In that plan the model was to add a fifth BCS Bowl and then pick the two best teams from those five games and have an NC game two weeks later. Had it not been nixed the competition was supposedly going to come down to the Citrus, the Gator and the Cotton with the Gator again the forerunner due to the fact that they were willing *gasp* to be the Big East anchor bowl should the league meet the new eligibility criteria for an auto-bid.

I've read some cfb writers/analysts think the higher $$$ involved with the Citrus is actually a drawback for them being elevated to BCS Bowl status (should another bowl be added) because no other bowl will likely pay what they pay for the SEC #2/3 and Big Ten #2/3 match-up.

But if they are elevated over the Gator and the Cotton, look for the Gator to ditch both the ACC and the Big East for that match-up.

Cheers,
Neil

The Citrus Bowl will never become a BCS bowl in it's current condition, and is endanger of losing the Big 10/SEC to Tampa. Neither conference is happy with the conditions at stadium. The City of Orlando is suppose to put $150 million into the stadium that no one plays in just to keep 3 games in town.

I thought it was $175 million approved back in 2007 with it scheduled to be done by 2010?

In addition to the 3 games, didn't they also think they could get the Super Bowl every now and then as well?

If not, there is always the ACC Championship game!

Cheers,
Neil

(12-16-2008 08:09 PM)UofL07 Wrote:  Background
Part of the problem with this deal is that Notre Dame refuses to schedule Big East teams (i.e. member of its own conference) as equals.

Why would they? Like it or not, Notre Dame and the Big East teams are not, in any sense that matters, equals. Notre Dame is far bigger-time than any BE program.

Quote:Unlike 2003, Big East football is on much sturdier footing. Attendance for the most of the Big East bowl games is improving each year. The perception of Big East football in the national media is light years ahead of where it was 5 years ago.

Dude, i hate to say it but the St. Pete Bowl, which is in USF's metro area, drew a crowd of 22,000. That's the SMALLEST crowd for a bowl debut since 1997, when the Humanitarian Bowl had 20,000 (that game featured Cincinnatti, btw).

In contrast, last night's Hawaii Bowl drew 46,000 fans to see two 6-6 teams, but guess what? one of them was Notre Dame. Lst year's Hawaii bowl featuring 10-2 Boise drew about 15,000 fans.

Quote:First, Notre Dame would be required to schedule three ‘home-and-homes’ per year to be included in any post season Big East deals.

Dude, like it or not, the Big East is in no position to "require" Notre Dame to do anything.

The Humanitarian Bowl, UC's first in 50 years was against Utah State in Utah........not too many UC fans going to make that one.

(12-25-2008 12:22 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  The Humanitarian Bowl, UC's first in 50 years was against Utah State in Utah........not too many UC fans going to make that one.

You'd think that after that 50 year wait the fans would have traveled to Moscow to see the team in a bowl.

ND situation fix is this:

memo to ND: Either join for fb or effective immediatly, you can find another home for all your other programs that currently leach of the BE.

(12-24-2008 05:43 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(12-23-2008 01:38 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(12-18-2008 11:43 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  That thinking began when both the Gator and the Citrus tried to outbid the Orange as the fourth BCS Bowl back in the 90s. Supposedly it was the Gator's proposal that was almost accepted over the Orange, but the Orange won out due to its long-standing history.

It continued on back in 2004 or 2005 when ABC/ESPN wanted to go to the BCS Plus One that the Pac-10 and Big Ten nixed. In that plan the model was to add a fifth BCS Bowl and then pick the two best teams from those five games and have an NC game two weeks later. Had it not been nixed the competition was supposedly going to come down to the Citrus, the Gator and the Cotton with the Gator again the forerunner due to the fact that they were willing *gasp* to be the Big East anchor bowl should the league meet the new eligibility criteria for an auto-bid.

I've read some cfb writers/analysts think the higher $$$ involved with the Citrus is actually a drawback for them being elevated to BCS Bowl status (should another bowl be added) because no other bowl will likely pay what they pay for the SEC #2/3 and Big Ten #2/3 match-up.

But if they are elevated over the Gator and the Cotton, look for the Gator to ditch both the ACC and the Big East for that match-up.

Cheers,
Neil

The Citrus Bowl will never become a BCS bowl in it's current condition, and is endanger of losing the Big 10/SEC to Tampa. Neither conference is happy with the conditions at stadium. The City of Orlando is suppose to put $150 million into the stadium that no one plays in just to keep 3 games in town.

I thought it was $175 million approved back in 2007 with it scheduled to be done by 2010?

In addition to the 3 games, didn't they also think they could get the Super Bowl every now and then as well?

If not, there is always the ACC Championship game!

Cheers,
Neil

It has been approved.. It's possible things have been slowed with the credit and budget crunch.. they needed about 75 mil to just do repairs and minor upgrades.. the 175 mil is going to be a pretty major upgrade..
I don't think they will get super bowl.. but there was alot of talk of some neutral site games.. possibly FSU/ND and others..

Since UCF left the Citrus Bowl after the 2006 season, the city of Orlando hasn't spent one dime on the Citrus Bowl.

In 2004, the Mayor of Orlando told then UCF AD Steve Orsini to "get lost" for up 2 years as the city was going to refurbish the Citrus Bowl and didn't want the added cost of working about UCF's schedule...so UCF was told to go "find a home for a year or two" then comeback.

Well, as it turned out, that "get lost" message was the greatest thing to ever happen to UCF as the Mayor's action made UCF look into all different alternatives (i.e. play at a temp stadium at Wide World of Sports at Disney, temp stadium on campus, expand a community stadium in Daytona, etc...), and now UCF has its own 45,000 seat stadium, plus, built their own 10,000 seat arena...while the city of Orlando hasn't put one drop of paint on the Citrus Bowl over the past few years.

The Citrus Bowl is almost beyond repair (especially the first 2 levels) and even a $175 Million "make-over", it would pale in comparison's to Jerry Jone's new $1.3 Billion palace he is building in Dallas which WILL be the home of an upcoming National Championship BCS game in the very near future.

Joe Robbie (Dolphin Stadium) just spent $250 Million or so just to upgrade all their club/premium seating areas plus new concessions, etc...and the city of Orlando thinks they have a shot if they spend $175 Mil to build practically a new stadium?

It still won't come close to the number of club seats and suites that Tampa and Miami can offer and BCS games need those high $$$$$ premium seats.

PS. Florida Citrus Sports (city organization) that hosts their 2 bowl games does have contracts for 2 upcoming FSU games and 2 upcoming ND games over the next 5 plus years.

(12-25-2008 08:18 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  Since UCF left the Citrus Bowl after the 2006 season, the city of Orlando hasn't spent one dime on the Citrus Bowl.

It saddens me to hear that. I have fond memories of attending rock concerts at the Tangerine Bowl in the 1980s. Would not like to see that stadium go under.

(12-25-2008 04:43 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ND situation fix is this:

memo to ND: Either join for fb or effective immediatly, you can find another home for all your other programs that currently leach of the BE.

er, how is ND 'leaching' off the BE in other sports, any more than any other BE school is?

(12-25-2008 09:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-25-2008 08:18 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  Since UCF left the Citrus Bowl after the 2006 season, the city of Orlando hasn't spent one dime on the Citrus Bowl.

It saddens me to hear that. I have fond memories of attending rock concerts at the Tangerine Bowl in the 1980s. Would not like to see that stadium go under.

Yeah...me too.

Saw the Stones there in 1981 as they were the biggest thing to hit Orlando since Diseny.

PS. Van Halen was on the under-card that day (they were unbelievable back in the day) and I think it was their "Diver Down" album that had a photo taken from behind the stage that day in Orlando with the back T-Bowl in the background.

You can clearly see the old 3rd deck on the East Side...which was soon torn down afterwards because it swayed...and it was finally replaced 8-10 yrs later with the larger concrete deck that was added to both sides.

Citrus Bowl bonus: For those sitting on the 2nd level East side...enjoy the old "troughs" in the men's room!

(12-25-2008 09:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-25-2008 04:43 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ND situation fix is this:

memo to ND: Either join for fb or effective immediatly, you can find another home for all your other programs that currently leach of the BE.

er, how is ND 'leaching' off the BE in other sports, any more than any other BE school is?

Because ND won't give the BE the ONE thing it needs from them....football team which would help with our credability......we don't need ND bball, volleyball, etc. We give them a home for these sports and in football they say "tough"....that makes them leeches.

Sorry but there is no way that the gator or Citrus will compete with the Cotton Bowl when it moves to the new Cowboy stadium. I see that bowl getting the 5th BCS bowl slot. It will be a great stadium and a great tradition of Cotton Bowl behind it. Look for it to become the home of the Big12 champ when not in championship.

I don't see 4 BCS games adding Cotton Bowl, why would they go from hosting NC every 4 yrs to every
5 yrs. from bussiness stand point, doesn't make sence.

(12-27-2008 06:07 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  I don't see 4 BCS games adding Cotton Bowl, why would they go from hosting NC every 4 yrs to every
5 yrs. from bussiness stand point, doesn't make sence.

Gazillion $$$$$.

Cowboy Stadium can seat up to 100,000 people...but it has the thousands of club seats, hundreds of suites, that places like the Rose Bowl don't....which brings in extra millions of $$$$.

Also, Cowboy Stadium will have a huge outdoor HDTV screen and its set up so that they can sell another 20,000 tickets to folks that want to BE THERE and watch the game "outside" in the square.

120,000 tickets....thousands of club seats, hundreds of suites....the longest HDTV screen in the world (stretching from 20 yd line to the OTHER 20 yd line), new Cowboy stadium will be PRINTING money for BCS Championship Games and future Super Bowls.

PS. Other stadium will feel LUCKY that they can still host a BCS Champ game every 5 years...or grab a Super Bowl every 5-6 years...because if it was just $$$$$ deciding everything...Cowboy Stadium would just host EVERYTHING.

Here's the very cool website for the stadium:
http://stadium.dallascowboys.com/

(12-26-2008 02:29 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(12-25-2008 09:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-25-2008 08:18 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  Since UCF left the Citrus Bowl after the 2006 season, the city of Orlando hasn't spent one dime on the Citrus Bowl.

It saddens me to hear that. I have fond memories of attending rock concerts at the Tangerine Bowl in the 1980s. Would not like to see that stadium go under.

Yeah...me too.

Saw the Stones there in 1981 as they were the biggest thing to hit Orlando since Diseny.

PS. Van Halen was on the under-card that day (they were unbelievable back in the day) and I think it was their "Diver Down" album that had a photo taken from behind the stage that day in Orlando with the back T-Bowl in the background.

I moved to florida in late 82, so that show was before my time but i did hear plenty about it back then. VH/Stones must have been incredible! I also remember people talking about the foreigner/ozzy show that was right after ozzy's guitarist was killed.

FYI, the concerts i recall seeing at the t-bowl back then were:

1982: the Who
1983: Journey, Aerosmith
1983: the Police
1987: Genesis
1992: Guns-Roses/Metallica

(12-27-2008 06:16 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(12-27-2008 06:07 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  I don't see 4 BCS games adding Cotton Bowl, why would they go from hosting NC every 4 yrs to every
5 yrs. from bussiness stand point, doesn't make sence.

Gazillion $$$$$.

Cowboy Stadium can seat up to 100,000 people...but it has the thousands of club seats, hundreds of suites, that places like the Rose Bowl don't....which brings in extra millions of $$$$.

When i was growing up, the 4 major bowls were the rose, sugar, orange, and cotton. It saddened me when the cotton declined to second-tier status with the demise of the SWC, so i would like to see it re-gain major, BCS-level status. It's always been a great bowl, has hosted some incredible games.

(12-26-2008 03:24 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(12-25-2008 09:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-25-2008 04:43 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ND situation fix is this:

memo to ND: Either join for fb or effective immediatly, you can find another home for all your other programs that currently leach of the BE.

er, how is ND 'leaching' off the BE in other sports, any more than any other BE school is?

Because ND won't give the BE the ONE thing it needs from them....football team which would help with our credability......we don't need ND bball, volleyball, etc. We give them a home for these sports and in football they say "tough"....that makes them leeches.

No, the term "leech" means that party A takes more from B in their relationship than it gives. So ND would only be a leech if they get more from their BE membership in those other sports than it "gives back" in the form of increased fan interest, success that brings honor to the conference and money, etc.

And there's no evidence that this is the case.

There no doupt Jerry Jones could buy NCG & use Cotton Bowl tag.
stadium is nice, but nausating with all cowboy crap.