Watch the video then comment here. And please refrain from turning this thread into a "Cafferty is a raging liberal" thread.

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SURE !!!

Let us Play Directly Too and Without Having to Pass 'GO', fall Face First into the world of the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and the Illegal Combatant WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO the GENEVA CONVENTIONS/PROTOCOLS and let us Prosecute ALL Members of Congress, All Cabinet Members of the Bush White House, ALL the Joint Chiefs, and EVERY SOLDIER THAT FOUGHT THESE ILLEGAL COMBATANTS and the President Himself.

I don't care it if is John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, GW Bush .... there shouldn't even be a question on the Books Regarding this Foolishness of Prosecuting Presidents and Congressmen for GOING TO WAR !!!!!

It will be a Taliban/Al Qaeda Field Day because no other President will ever go to War Again ... no matter how bad we get hit .... out of pure Fear of Prison or Death !!!!!!

And the United States policy is CLEAR .... "We DO NOT use Torture on Prisoners of War or Detainee's" ...

Does other countries come in and question these ILLEGAL COMBATANTS for their Safety and Security ..... SURE they do ... are we responsible for The Actions of These Nations and their Methods of Obtaining Information from these Illegal Combatants while they are in the Custody of these other Nations ???? NO !!!!!

Stop trying to Prosecute every fooking President for Securing and Protecting his Country and I am taking up for GW Bush, Bill Clinton, GH Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson, John F. Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower, Harry Truman, Franklin Roosevelt and ALL the other Presidents who had to Protect His Nation During times of War and Great Hostile Threat.

It is sickening that we are even debating this stupid insanity. Liberal or Conservative.

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You are dead wrong; we should not become our enemy. There is a distinct difference between defending ourselves from unprovoked attack and shaming this country with the use of "advanced interrogation techniques". Should we start beheading prisoners on TV just because al-Qaeda does? Should we target thousands of innocent civilians, shedding their blood in the streets, just to strike fear into our enemy? Just because our enemy is immoral and has no regard for human life, we should devolve to the same stance?

Waterboarding, Gitmo, and Abu Gharib only undercut our stance against terrorism and sully our name internationally. So to answer the question, if our government officials used torture as defined by the Geneva Convention, then those responsible should be charged for war crimes. You cannot fight terrorism by being a terrorist.

Paul Rieckhoff, the executive director of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America argues my point quite well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/opinio...khoff.html

perunapower Wrote:You are dead wrong; we should not become our enemy. There is a distinct difference between defending ourselves from unprovoked attack and shaming this country with the use of "advanced interrogation techniques". Should we start beheading prisoners on TV just because al-Qaeda does? Should we target thousands of innocent civilians, shedding their blood in the streets, just to strike fear into our enemy? Just because our enemy is immoral and has no regard for human life, we should devolve to the same stance?

Waterboarding, Gitmo, and Abu Gharib only undercut our stance against terrorism and sully our name internationally. So to answer the question, if our government officials used torture as defined by the Geneva Convention, then those responsible should be charged for war crimes. You cannot fight terrorism by being a terrorist.

Paul Rieckhoff, the executive director of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America argues my point quite well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/opinio...khoff.html

I don't know if we are using torture or not...but...This bill should be DOA. Makes me think these guys have something to hide....How many times have we heard the neo-cons say.."If you have nothing to hide..why do you object to having your phones tapped?"...Please lets be consistent.

perunapower Wrote:You are dead wrong; we should not become our enemy. There is a distinct difference between defending ourselves from unprovoked attack and shaming this country with the use of "advanced interrogation techniques". Should we start beheading prisoners on TV just because al-Qaeda does? Should we target thousands of innocent civilians, shedding their blood in the streets, just to strike fear into our enemy? Just because our enemy is immoral and has no regard for human life, we should devolve to the same stance?
Waterboarding, Gitmo, and Abu Gharib only undercut our stance against terrorism and sully our name internationally. So to answer the question, if our government officials used torture as defined by the Geneva Convention, then those responsible should be charged for war crimes. You cannot fight terrorism by being a terrorist.

Paul Rieckhoff, the executive director of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America argues my point quite well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/opinio...khoff.html

I have heard some on here that have said yes to those questions (ironically, the pro-life people).

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Just to ask and not to be mean or trying to put anyone down or any of that sort of stuff ...

BUT ....

How many of you that have posted have actually been in Real Live Combat with Weapons Pointed at you and Knives out to cut your head off and could not tell the Enemy from the Villagers because they ALL WORE THE SAME THING ...

In simple Terms ... they were Illegal Combatants that even the World Court Defines as Illegal and these Guyz do not Play Fair there Homies.

They will HURT you beyond all measure of belief and you CAN NOT Beg, or Plead, or Get In Touch with Their Human Side, or Make them Feel Sorry for You ..... they are determined to Hurt, Torture, and Kill you and THEY HATE YOU WITH MORE HATE THAN YOU COULD EVER KNOW EXISTED.

If you haven't Been a Combat Soldier, may I suggest you go down the Local Recruiter and Sign Up .... go do a Couple of Tours in the Combat Zone where you actually Kill people and people are trying to kill you, then come back here and say you wish they would Prosecute and Imprison everyone from the President on Down, who Had Due Authority Over the Theater of War you fought in.

You will NOT come home feeling the same and YOU will never be the same person you were when you boarded that Plane to Hell.

You do things in Combat to Survive that will make you Puke once you get back "In The World" and you think about them .... either you keep that door shut tight, or you are an Angry Pissed Off MOFO for the Rest of Your Life.

Sound like anyone you know ?????

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That is pretty old. Wonder what ever happened to that.

Tripster Wrote:.

Just to ask and not to be mean or trying to put anyone down or any of that sort of stuff ...

BUT ....

How many of you that have posted have actually been in Real Live Combat with Weapons Pointed at you and Knives out to cut your head off and could not tell the Enemy from the Villagers because they ALL WORE THE SAME THING ...

In simple Terms ... they were Illegal Combatants that even the World Court Defines as Illegal and these Guyz do not Play Fair there Homies.

They will HURT you beyond all measure of belief and you CAN NOT Beg, or Plead, or Get In Touch with Their Human Side, or Make them Feel Sorry for You ..... they are determined to Hurt, Torture, and Kill you and THEY HATE YOU WITH MORE HATE THAN YOU COULD EVER KNOW EXISTED.

If you haven't Been a Combat Soldier, may I suggest you go down the Local Recruiter and Sign Up .... go do a Couple of Tours in the Combat Zone where you actually Kill people and people are trying to kill you, then come back here and say you wish they would Prosecute and Imprison everyone from the President on Down, who Had Due Authority Over the Theater of War you fought in.

You will NOT come home feeling the same and YOU will never be the same person you were when you boarded that Plane to Hell.

You do things in Combat to Survive that will make you Puke once you get back "In The World" and you think about them .... either you keep that door shut tight, or you are an Angry Pissed Off MOFO for the Rest of Your Life.

Sound like anyone you know ?????

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I don't care how many tours of duty you do, it is NEVER acceptable to torture someone else either out of frustration, hatred, or to try and get intelligence. There is a damn good reason why such highly respected veterans such as Former Sec. of State Colin Powell (Vietnam), Senator Lindsay Graham (Iraq), Senator John McCain (Vietnam), Senator John Warner (WWII), amongst others vehemently oppose the use of torture.

No one is arguing that war is anything but the hardest, most trying thing that many men and women do in their lives, but the mental and emotional taxation that war does to a person is not justification for torturing prisoners. We are a better country than that and our soldiers should exemplify our country to the world because they are our ambassadors.

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Purina Power - - I didn't say one word about "Torture" in my post, other than that these Illegal Combatants, are Right and Ready to Torture the Hell out of you, me, and everyone else, yet we put on White Gloves and White Hats and abide by the Articles of the Hague and Geneva Conventions.

Since you are so Passionate on this Issue .... pray tell us Purina Power, just what is the Grand Answer here "Oh Hammurabi" ???

Stop screaming at ME and OFFER an Answer ....

I was simply upholding our Leaders, INCLUDING Colin Powell who was Pretty Much in Charge of the whole show In the Persian Gulf for quite some time and Will Be One of those poor bastards they Hang if this Idiotic Silliness is allowed to go forth.

And PLEASE, Do Tell Us All, what President will ever again use Force to Protect the United States if he knows that he Faces Imprisonment and The Death Penalty if he does.

This is just ignorantly stupidly dumb and there is no other side to it .... this is why Cop's get killed all the time .... they Hesitate for that Milli-Second before shooting because they have that Grand Jury in the back of their minds who will Indict them in a Heart Beat, where the Criminal will NOT hesitate to start pulling that trigger .... he don't care about no Jury.

Think about what you are asking to happen to the Commander-In-Chief of Our Armed Forces and his Cabinet, along with the Joint-Chief's, and all of Congress.

This is not about Conservative Versus Liberal .... this is not about Politics !!!!! This is about the President & Congress having Absolute Power and Authority to Prosecute a War on Hostile Nations with Pure Immunity and Complete Autonomy ....

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Tripster Wrote:.

Purina Power - - I didn't say one word about "Torture" in my post, other than that these Illegal Combatants, are Right and Ready to Torture the Hell out of you, me, and everyone else, yet we put on White Gloves and White Hats and abide by the Articles of the Hague and Geneva Conventions.

Since you are so Passionate on this Issue .... pray tell us Purina Power, just what is the Grand Answer here "Oh Hammurabi" ???

Stop screaming at ME and OFFER an Answer ....

I was simply upholding our Leaders, INCLUDING Colin Powell who was Pretty Much in Charge of the whole show In the Persian Gulf for quite some time and Will Be One of those poor bastards they Hang if this Idiotic Silliness is allowed to go forth.

And PLEASE, Do Tell Us All, what President will ever again use Force to Protect the United States if he knows that he Faces Imprisonment and The Death Penalty if he does.

This is just ignorantly stupidly dumb and there is no other side to it .... this is why Cop's get killed all the time .... they Hesitate for that Milli-Second before shooting because they have that Grand Jury in the back of their minds who will Indict them in a Heart Beat, where the Criminal will NOT hesitate to start pulling that trigger .... he don't care about no Jury.

Think about what you are asking to happen to the Commander-In-Chief of Our Armed Forces and his Cabinet, along with the Joint-Chief's, and all of Congress.

This is not about Conservative Versus Liberal .... this is not about Politics !!!!! This is about the President & Congress having Absolute Power and Authority to Prosecute a War on Hostile Nations with Pure Immunity and Complete Autonomy ....

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You may not have said it in your post, but that is what all of this is about. It's not about protecting this country or even starting wars, so your questions and analogies are all misplaced.

I'm passionate about this issue because there are others who are even more passionate about becoming our enemy to defeat them.

You're right, this isn't a conservative versus liberal argument; it's rational versus irrational. It is irrational to think that you must fight eye for an eye in order to properly fight. It is irrational to think that just because an insurgent group ambushed a pair of contractors and beheads them on TV that we should reciprocate the action.

The "grand" answer is quite simple: don't use "advanced interrogation techniques". If you think that standing by our word when we signed agreements to abide by certain basic human rights will prevent future Presidents and leaders from protecting this country, you are out of your mind. By conducting war in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, we are standing up for human rights and for decency.

Cops get killed by criminals, not because there are laws against excessive force and police brutality. The same analogy holds true on the battlefield.

Our President and our Congress should not have "pure immunity and complete autonomy", they should be held accountable for the decisions they've made. You implied that war is the a despicable, horrible thing, so why should the people in charge not be held accountable for their decisions? If they order the slaughter of civilians, shouldn't they be brought to justice? These men and women make terribly difficult decisions, but the level of difficulty of their decisions should not exempt them from the repercussions of their choices.

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I did not mean give them Power as in Dictatorships like Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Idi Amin Dada, John Bertrand Aristide, Papa Doc & Baby Doc, Saddam Hussein, and such Thugs.

I want them held 'Accountable", not Witch Hunted 'til Dooms Day, then Burned at the Stake for a "Feel Good Moment".

We have to have at least the "Illusion" that our President, His Advisors, And Congress are a Unified Front with at least a Majority of Americans, when We are Attacked or Threatened with Hostile Aggression of Any Kind.

I don't want Bill Clinton or Barrack Obama to have to face this sort of Insanity when we are fighting Murdering Wild Morons that care nothing of "Rules or Human Life".

I am agreeing with your Basis, just not the Guts of it.

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