army56mike Wrote:I don't believe he owes me any explanation. He doesn't answer to you or me. He answers to Tom Jurich and the UofL administration. I am thankful that he chooses to let me in on the information that was put out. That is a bonus for the general public. It is not a right.

And the reason he may not go farther into explanation or details could be to protect the kid from an embarrassing situation. Maybe not. I believe that he is looking out for the well being of all involved.

I never said the personal appearance to address the situation had to be a public one...

Kragthorpe did not have these kinds of problems at Tulsa. Playing at little bitty Tulsa with its high academic standards....you get a kid who has self responsibility to keep their academics together....and you also get a kid who is responsible in other aspects of life. Tulsa is, of course, not perfect. There have been TU kids kicked off the team. No college these days escapes the realities of our society today. But these kinds of problems are not nearly as severe at Tulsa. Gundy went thru this at Oklahoma State....kicked off so many kids, one wondered if there were enough left to field a team. But, eventually, the kids got the message at Oklahoma State, and the incidents went way down. OU just kicked off a highly ranked WR earlier this season. I forgot the infraction but some OU fans thought the Stoops went over board. But, I think Stoops remembered the turmoil under Switzer's last days....and didn't want one bad apple to give the whole football program bad publicity. If you have a losing team, the publicity is not great. Have a real good team, any player breaking the rules ruins everything publicity wise. So, I think Kragthorpe establishing discipline now....is better than trying to do that later when UL has a winning team.

2 week suspension...

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs...002/SPORTS

Crimsonelf Wrote:I'm skeptical of the Kragger era, but he's going to be at the Ville for at least 2 more seasons ... Let's see what happens, then we can judge his place in UL fball history...

Until then, I just hope they win. They got a Brohm for O, they got English for D, he seems to be the real deal. Maybe I'm being a Pollyanna here(well, no, that would require a level of optimism that most people simply will never possess) but I've got to be hopeful, don't I?

Sadly, his best teams of the 4 year tenure will be years 1 and 2. Have you seen who/what we lose after this year, and see what is coming in. We can't even out recruit our own city over UK. Not whinning or being pessimistic, just observing the truth. We shall see come February how the recruiting class really shapes up, but the earliest they will produce as a whole will be 2 years from now, which could be to late for him.

We lose QB, Oline, Dline, among others after this year.

Tallgrass Wrote:Kragthorpe did not have these kinds of problems at Tulsa. Playing at little bitty Tulsa with its high academic standards....you get a kid who has self responsibility to keep their academics together....and you also get a kid who is responsible in other aspects of life.

Kragthorpe also didn't follow Bobby Petrino at Tulsa, and Petrino overlooked the ambiguity in a talented kid's background. Fans blame Kragthorpe, since the team is doing badly now, when it's all the fault of the previous regime...

dgrace4cards Wrote:Would you guys think the fanbase (me and many others) deserve a presser with Krags to hear him out about all of the off field shenanigans and how he has changed his position from spring ball to summer to in season becoming more strict? As a fan who supports the team with $$$$ don't we deserve something more than a written short statement for each of these, at some point you have to sit down with the media and go over all of this.

No.

Fans do NOT have the right to know everything and anything going on inside/outside a program.

Actually, most Universities/Athletic Programs/Coaches, etc...normally dismiss players/students WITHOUT telling the public the exact cause (in full detail) on what that student/player did, especially if it wasn't against the law...but obvious against school/team policy/rules.

Big boosters definitely get a little more information, as well as say so in a program. But even they have a line they can't cross...

bitcruncher Wrote:The fact that he's the only decent kicker is irrelevant when it's a disciplinary situation. Kragthorpe has to take decisive action quickly, to send a message to the rest of the players - and any potential recruits...

Agreed, Bit. My prior point was more sarcastic than anything.

I will say, to me, it would depend on another factor: was he contrite (“sorry, I made a HUGE mistake”) or indignant (“yeah, I did it, so what?”) about it? If the former, suspend him for a couple games, and make restitution. If the latter, yes, “you’re outta here.”

bitcruncher Wrote:

Tallgrass Wrote:Kragthorpe did not have these kinds of problems at Tulsa. Playing at little bitty Tulsa with its high academic standards....you get a kid who has self responsibility to keep their academics together....and you also get a kid who is responsible in other aspects of life.

Kragthorpe also didn't follow Bobby Petrino at Tulsa, and Petrino overlooked the ambiguity in a talented kid's background. Fans blame Kragthorpe, since the team is doing badly now, when it's all the fault of the previous regime...

Please, as an outsider to the program tell me and fellow Card fans how its all Petrinos fault for Krags inabilities to take his two most talented teams he will have and play .500 ball with lousy schedules.

KnightLight Wrote:

dgrace4cards Wrote:Would you guys think the fanbase (me and many others) deserve a presser with Krags to hear him out about all of the off field shenanigans and how he has changed his position from spring ball to summer to in season becoming more strict? As a fan who supports the team with $$$$ don't we deserve something more than a written short statement for each of these, at some point you have to sit down with the media and go over all of this.

No.

Fans do NOT have the right to know everything and anything going on inside/outside a program.

Actually, most Universities/Athletic Programs/Coaches, etc...normally dismiss players/students WITHOUT telling the public the exact cause (in full detail) on what that student/player did, especially if it wasn't against the law...but obvious against school/team policy/rules.

Doesn't this become a bigger picture issue that should be looked into with some transparency when it becomes 25+ players dismissed. I understand the 5-10 guys maybe that needed to be dismissed for not obiding by the new coaches culture, but really, 25+, sounds like something is wrong on the leadership side there as well. Can't build a culture 18 months into it to maintain responsibility, respect, maturity, and other traits an adult acquires.

dgrace4cards Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:

Tallgrass Wrote:Kragthorpe did not have these kinds of problems at Tulsa. Playing at little bitty Tulsa with its high academic standards....you get a kid who has self responsibility to keep their academics together....and you also get a kid who is responsible in other aspects of life.

Kragthorpe also didn't follow Bobby Petrino at Tulsa, and Petrino overlooked the ambiguity in a talented kid's background. Fans blame Kragthorpe, since the team is doing badly now, when it's all the fault of the previous regime...

Please, as an outsider to the program tell me and fellow Card fans how its all Petrinos fault for Krags inabilities to take his two most talented teams he will have and play .500 ball with lousy schedules.

Frankly, unless you're a member of the team, or a sportswriter covering the team, anyone is an outsider, even fans. As a rookie, with only 148 posts, I guess you didn't see all the posts this year and last dealing with this particular subject. You're more the outsider here.

My perspective is that Koach is a stand up person who wants to win on the field and in the game of life. Thankfully he understands that the game of life is much more important than the game of football. None-the-less, I believe he is committed to winning and I think he is a winner. I expect The Ville to be at BCS championship level in the next 4 years.

Let me ask a simple question though. In major college football today, is it realistic to expect to win at least 9 games a season? I think that is folly. No team can sustain that type of winning. Louisville had a time period when it was on the mountain top. Now it has tumbled a bit. It is the natural ebb and flow of the game.

I definitely was not satisfied with how last season turned out, and I'm not too happy about our two loses this season, especially for a second straight year to Kensucky. But, I bet the Koach, his staff and players are a lot less satisfied than I am. I will stand behind my team though.

One of the bigger problems I have, that may influence our Koach and players is the apathy and lack of support from the fan base. Players notice fan support. So do coaches. They read the blogs, the message boards, the newspapers, etc. They see what goes on in the stands. UofL has one of the lamest fan bases that I know of. If the team is winning every game, the fans come out and support the team... to a certain extent. UofL fans don't show up for kick off. they arrive 5 minutes into the first quarter. If the Cards are up by 10 they leave at the beginning of the 4th quarter. If they are down by 10 they leave before the 4th quarter. It's embarrassing. You think the players and coaches don't notice that?

any time i argue that point you made above, i get criticised for not being from there or not understanding how the state hates you or not publicly declaring what team i'm a fan of and therefore have no standing to make such criticisms.

i could be a fan of prarie view a&m and still make the same claims you just did. from what i see on television, there are a bunch of frontrunning cardinal fans that bother to show up for games* and would rather go out to the stadium for the social aspect instead of going to watch the game. that would discourage me as a potential recruit that the fans are for me when i'm on a winner, but are negative-to-apathetic when i'm on a loser. hell, i'd rather be booed than not have people show up. at least when i'm getting booed i know people still care.

the louisville fanbase is still jumping all over kragthorpe in just his second season in. if it goes on after another 2 years, then i would see the majority of those againt him point about him.





*-provided that they're winning

Fans are quick to jump off the bandwagon. If only they were as quick to jump on...

dgrace4cards Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

dgrace4cards Wrote:Would you guys think the fanbase (me and many others) deserve a presser with Krags to hear him out about all of the off field shenanigans and how he has changed his position from spring ball to summer to in season becoming more strict? As a fan who supports the team with $$$$ don't we deserve something more than a written short statement for each of these, at some point you have to sit down with the media and go over all of this.

No.

Fans do NOT have the right to know everything and anything going on inside/outside a program.

Actually, most Universities/Athletic Programs/Coaches, etc...normally dismiss players/students WITHOUT telling the public the exact cause (in full detail) on what that student/player did, especially if it wasn't against the law...but obvious against school/team policy/rules.

Doesn't this become a bigger picture issue that should be looked into with some transparency when it becomes 25+ players dismissed. I understand the 5-10 guys maybe that needed to be dismissed for not obiding by the new coaches culture, but really, 25+, sounds like something is wrong on the leadership side there as well. Can't build a culture 18 months into it to maintain responsibility, respect, maturity, and other traits an adult acquires.

I'm sure Krag has kept his boss (Jurich) informed during this entire process...and I'm pretty sure Jurich has supported most, if not all, Krag's decision.

bitcruncher Wrote:

dgrace4cards Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:

Tallgrass Wrote:Kragthorpe did not have these kinds of problems at Tulsa. Playing at little bitty Tulsa with its high academic standards....you get a kid who has self responsibility to keep their academics together....and you also get a kid who is responsible in other aspects of life.

Kragthorpe also didn't follow Bobby Petrino at Tulsa, and Petrino overlooked the ambiguity in a talented kid's background. Fans blame Kragthorpe, since the team is doing badly now, when it's all the fault of the previous regime...

Please, as an outsider to the program tell me and fellow Card fans how its all Petrinos fault for Krags inabilities to take his two most talented teams he will have and play .500 ball with lousy schedules.

Frankly, unless you're a member of the team, or a sportswriter covering the team, anyone is an outsider, even fans. As a rookie, with only 148 posts, I guess you didn't see all the posts this year and last dealing with this particular subject. You're more the outsider here.

Just because I don't post every 45 seconds on here doesn't mean I don't read, and I recall those threads myself. I remember chiming in on them as well with the same points to counter the nonsense some of you guys think are true looking at our program from a far.

bitcruncher Wrote:Fans are quick to jump off the bandwagon. If only they were as quick to jump on...

No bandwagon fan here, been a true supporter, season ticket holder, traveler to 3 liberty bowls and the orange bowl. So I feel I've donated time and money to the program to be upset.

And if any of you guys think we are going to get better the next two years you're in for a surprise. Unless he gets and a stellar recruiting class the next two February's AND they ramp up within an 1/2 season we are losing alot more than we are gaining these last two seasons compared to the following 2 coming. Oh might I add, our schedule gets much tougher next 2 years.

Recruiting has dropped off, if you go by rankings. But I've always said recruiting rankings are mostly opinion. You can guage a kid's physical abilities, and measure them to the finest degree. But you can't guage a kid's head, especially when he's under pressure. You also can't guage determination, that will to succeed under any condition. There's too many intangibles in the equation. A lot of it is that the recruiting services rank highly kids being recruited by traditional powers, and pretty much ignore the rest for the most part. I've seen a lot of highly ranked recruits amount to nothing, and many lightly regarded recruits pan out big time.

WVU's made a living out of these kinds of recruits for years. Krag's staff may be able to do the same. Some people are good at that sort of thing. If UofL get worse next year, then I'd be more inclined to back your b!tch!ng. But the season ain't over yet...