Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
White racism may cost Obama the election
Author Message
smn1256 Offline
I miss Tripster
*

Posts: 28,878
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 337
I Root For: Lower taxes
Location: North Mexico
Post: #1
White racism may cost Obama the election
White racism may cost Obama the election

Quote:Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent" or responsible for their own troubles.

Since the left wing media loves Obama and has pushed for him from the beginning there has to be a reason why the race is so close, and, of course, the reason can't be of Obama's doing. White racism is the culprit and nothing is more popular or politically correct than blaming whitey. Of course, Rev. Wright's rantings weren't racist and should play no part in any of this.

The article mentions nothing about the percentage of blacks who intend to vote for Obama and not McC. Why am I not surprised?
09-20-2008 09:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Fort Bend Owl Online
Legend
*

Posts: 28,346
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 448
I Root For: An easy win
Location:

The Parliament Awards
Post: #2
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Um, maybe because there are 200 million white non-hispanics in the USA and perhaps 41 million blacks? Do the math - 1/3 of 200 million is still a lot more than 90 percent of 41 million.

This is absolutely an election dynamic to watch in November. There is nothing wrong with a story talking about its possibility of changing the election's outcome but I do believe they missed one scenario to consider and that is whites might be less inclined to vote against a light-skinned black presidential candidate over a dark skinned black candidate.

It reminds me of a classic SNL skit with Garrett Morris and politician Julian Bond who hosted the show back in the 70s. They were on a segment called black perspective and they were talking about a perceived bias against blacks in IQ testing. You can view the entire segment here but here is my favorite part of the skit.

Garrett Morris: Well, I think I understand the problem with the tests. But the fact is that people have been saying that white people are smarter than black for hundreds of years. We've only had I.Q. tests for 20 or 30 years. How did the idea of white intellectual superiority originate?

Julian Bond: That's an interesting point. My theory is that it's based on the fact that light-skinned blacks are smarter than dark-skinned blacks.

Garrett Morris: [ not sure he heard that right ] Say what?

Julian Bond: I said I think it might have grown out of the observation that light-skinned blacks are smarter than dark-skinned blacks.

Garrett Morris: I don't get it.

Julian Bond: It's got nothing to do with having white blood. It's just that descendants of the lighter-skinned African tribes are more intelligent than the descendants of the darker-skinned tribes. Everybody knows that.

Garrett Morris: This is the first time I've heard of it.

Julian Bond: Seriously? It was proven a long time ago.
09-21-2008 02:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jh Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,497
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 80
I Root For:
Location:

Donators
Post: #3
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
smn1256 Wrote:White racism may cost Obama the election
Since the left wing media loves Obama and has pushed for him from the beginning there has to be a reason why the race is so close, and, of course, the reason can't be of Obama's doing. White racism is the culprit and nothing is more popular or politically correct than blaming whitey. Of course, Rev. Wright's rantings weren't racist and should play no part in any of this.
From the article you posted:
Quote:Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.


smn1256 Wrote:The article mentions nothing about the percentage of blacks who intend to vote for Obama and not McC. Why am I not surprised?
Again, from the article you posted
Quote:On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.
I know "almost unanimous" isn't a percentage, but I think the AP was expecting its readers to be able to figure out what that means.

Seriously, what are you whining about here? You present this as an example of left wing media bias but they addressed both of your objections in the article.

And you don't think the fact that 40% of white Americans still harbor negative views towards blacks, even if they aren't powerful enough to keep them from voting for Obama, is relevant? Even if it doesn't affect the outcome of the election, it's still a measure of where we are as a country.
09-21-2008 08:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
perunapower Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 655
Joined: Jun 2007
Reputation: 10
I Root For: SMU
Location:
Post: #4
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Makes me wonder if he read the whole article before he posted.
09-21-2008 09:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cb4029 Offline
The spoon that stirs the pot.
*

Posts: 18,793
Joined: Jun 2007
Reputation: 353
I Root For: Deez Nuts
Location: B'ham

Donators
Post: #5
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
03-yawn
09-21-2008 11:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
smn1256 Offline
I miss Tripster
*

Posts: 28,878
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 337
I Root For: Lower taxes
Location: North Mexico
Post: #6
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
jh Wrote:From the article you posted:
Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.
I'm glad you pointed this out since it raises a point missed by both of us. If doubts about his competency loom even larger for independents then why does this appear in the first paragraph "one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks" and why does the title of the article say this Poll: Racial views steer some away from Obama One-third of polled white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks? The first sentence of the story says racial misgivings could cost Obama the White House. The author admits the larger problem is competency yet he immediately gets us all worked up over racism. I believe they're already setting up a potential loss as being due to racism.

Then, from the article, is this gem:
Quote: "The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans."
There's no preconceived bias here, right? Even though they try to explain it away they seemed to expect (want?), as much of the left wing media does, that obama should win and win big. Using their logic a Republican shouldn't have won after Clinton's term due to his popularity.

Quote:
Quote::
On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.
I know "almost unanimous" isn't a percentage, but I think the AP was expecting its readers to be able to figure out what that means.
You're right. Do you think there's a racial component in an "almost unanimous support?"

Quote:And you don't think the fact that 40% of white Americans still harbor negative views towards blacks, even if they aren't powerful enough to keep them from voting for Obama, is relevant? Even if it doesn't affect the outcome of the election, it's still a measure of where we are as a country.
40%. What an astoundingly high percentage. A white person gets a phone call from a complete stranger and openly admits to having negative views towards blacks. Even if 40% actually did think that way I doubt they'd ever admit it to a person they don't know. Any one who had a negative view should have been asked why and the results published in this article - don't you think? The poll is bogus if not outright fraud.

If a poll existed showing 40% of blacks had negative views of whites do you think it would ever be published or would it be stuffed in a drawer because it might be considered too inflammatory?
(This post was last modified: 09-21-2008 10:02 PM by smn1256.)
09-21-2008 08:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


jh Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,497
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 80
I Root For:
Location:

Donators
Post: #7
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
smn1256 Wrote:I'm glad you pointed this out since it raises a point missed by both of us. If doubts about his competency loom even larger for independents then why does this appear in the first paragraph "one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks" and why does the title of the article say this Poll: Racial views steer some away from Obama "One-third of polled white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks?" The first sentence of the story says racial misgivings could cost Obama the White House. The real story is about incompetence but the articles immediately steers us towards racism. I believe they're already setting up a potential loss being due to racism.
No, they got the real story right. The real story is about how racial misgivings might cost Obama the election. Individual judgments about the relative competencies of candidates will vary with each election. Deep seated racial prejudices are much harder to overcome & will have the same effect in future elections, regardless of the quality of the candidate. According to the survy Obama would be polling about 6% higher without the impact of prejudice, a fairly significant difference.

smn1256 Wrote:Then, from the article, is this gem:
Quote: "The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans."
Even though they try to explain it away they seemed to expect, as much of the left wing media does, that obama should win and win big. Using their logic a Republican shouldn't have won after Clinton's term due to his popularity.
I would say that it was the conventional wisdom, and not just among the left wing media, that this election was the Democrats to lose (which they've managed to do at least enough to make it a toss up). The polling data didn't match their expectations so they decided to try & find out why (I'm assuming racial prejudice was one of their hypothesis). There's nothing wrong with trying to figure out why something is happening. It would also have been reasonable to try & find out why Bush was able to beat Gore despite Clinton's popularity.

smn1256 Wrote:
Quote::
On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.
I know "almost unanimous" isn't a percentage, but I think the AP was expecting its readers to be able to figure out what that means.
You're right. Do you think there's a racial component in an "almost unanimous support?"
[/quote]
I would assume so, which is why they noted that this was the other side of the racial question. You are really trying way to hard to be offended here.

smn1256 Wrote:
jh Wrote:And you don't think the fact that 40% of white Americans still harbor negative views towards blacks, even if they aren't powerful enough to keep them from voting for Obama, is relevant? Even if it doesn't affect the outcome of the election, it's still a measure of where we are as a country.
40%. What an astoundingly high percentage. A white person gets a phone call from a complete stranger and openly admits to having negative views towards blacks. Even if 40% actually did think that way I doubt they'd ever admit it to a person they don't know. Any one who had a negative view should have been asked why and the results published in this article - don't you think? The poll is bogus if not outright fraud.
Again, you need to read the article a little more closely. The survey was conducted over the internet because studies have found people are more willing to give truthful responses when they aren't talking to someone. But what you are suggesting would tend to make the numbers higher, not lower.

The results didn't say that 40% of whites are racist or even that 40% of whites wouldn't vote for Obama because he was black. The poll said that 40% of whites had at least some negative views of blacks, and that those people were less likely to vote for Obama.

They also pointed out that some of the people who held negative views of blacks were still more than happy to vote for Obama.

smn1256 Wrote:If a poll existed showing 40% of blacks had negative views of whites do you think it would ever be published or stuffed in a drawer because it might be considered too inflamatory?
I think it would be published.
09-21-2008 10:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
firmbizzle Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,447
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 442
I Root For: UF, UCF
Location:
Post: #8
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
smn1256 Wrote:White racism may cost Obama the election

Quote:Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent" or responsible for their own troubles.

Since the left wing media loves Obama and has pushed for him from the beginning there has to be a reason why the race is so close, and, of course, the reason can't be of Obama's doing. White racism is the culprit and nothing is more popular or politically correct than blaming whitey. Of course, Rev. Wright's rantings weren't racist and should play no part in any of this.

The article mentions nothing about the percentage of blacks who intend to vote for Obama and not McC. Why am I not surprised?


You really thing if John Kerry of Al Gore were running it would be close? Stop listening to conservative radio! What does what white people think of black people have anything to do with Obama? Obama is responsible for Obama. That's like saying because I thin OJ is guilty Obama can't be president. One has nothing to do with the other. I hope more people see this.
(This post was last modified: 09-21-2008 11:16 PM by firmbizzle.)
09-21-2008 11:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OUBOBCATJOHN Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,936
Joined: Dec 2004
Reputation: 22
I Root For: Ohio Bobcats
Location: On top of the MAC
Post: #9
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
OBama's race likely has issues among certain groups within the Democratic party. Add in the Hillary snub, Lieberman being dissed by the party and the problems that Catholic voters have with OBama's position on abortion and gay marriage which are pushing Hispanic voters to McCain who is popular with Hispanics due to his partnership with Ted Kennedy on the immigration bill. OBama has a lot of problems with many Democratic voters. I know many Democrats that might not vote or vote for MCCain. Democrat base has moved way left and many moderate Democrats are feeling the party has left them by. Clinton was a moderate Democrat from Arkansas while Gore, Dean, Kerry and OBama have moved the party way left since Clinton left office. Hillary lost because she was too conservative for the Democratic base. Hillary would have helped with independents, but Obama is part of the ultra-liberal move-on.com wing of the party and that isn't where most of the country is. Now that the general election is finding out Obama's agenda they are slowly moving toward McCain. Hillary voters are stuck in the middle deciding between party or country first. If Palin holds her own in the debate with Biden, Obama likely will slip behind for good. McCain age is the concern not his policies. Bush was elected twice, which means most americans agree with most Bush policies. The war was the exception, but the serge has worked and MCcain was on the right side of that idea and OBama on the wrong side. War was Obama's one issue and the surge took that off the table.
09-21-2008 11:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #10
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Barack has done everything he can to ALIENATE white people. Phlegar? Farrakhan? Jeremiah Wright? Sitting in an anti-white church fore 20 years? Saying **** like "White folks greed runs a world in need"? Essentially distancing himself from his white grandparents who RAISED him, to be more black like his father who ABANDONED him?

Don't ***** about white people when 95% of black people are going to vote for f'n Obama. Obama has done this to himself through his associations. He "became" black for political expediency, along with all the bells and whistles, now he's in a position to where he needs those white people. His own miscalculated fault.
09-22-2008 01:20 PM
Quote this message in a reply
firmbizzle Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,447
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 442
I Root For: UF, UCF
Location:
Post: #11
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Rebel Wrote:Barack has done everything he can to ALIENATE white people. Phlegar? Farrakhan? Jeremiah Wright? Sitting in an anti-white church fore 20 years? Saying **** like "White folks greed runs a world in need"? Essentially distancing himself from his white grandparents who RAISED him, to be more black like his father who ABANDONED him?

Don't ***** about white people when 95% of black people are going to vote for f'n Obama. Obama has done this to himself through his associations. He "became" black for political expediency, along with all the bells and whistles, now he's in a position to where he needs those white people. His own miscalculated fault.

Explain to me how it's any different than when 95% of black people voted for Clinton, Gore, or Kerry. Not sure, but I think they were white. No Farrakhan ties at all. The church wasn't anti-white, Phlegler and many other white preachers preached in it. In fact, the church is part of the predominately white United Church of Christ which has give Wright many awards. Anyway what does that have to do with Barack Obama, I've never seen or heard him say malicious things. I don't consider the "bitter" comment malicious.
09-22-2008 01:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Fo Shizzle Offline
Pragmatic Classical Liberal
*

Posts: 42,023
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 1206
I Root For: ECU PIRATES
Location: North Carolina

Balance of Power Contest
Post: #12
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
I did not even read the article and know this will be true if BB loses this election close. This is not rocket science.
09-22-2008 04:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #13
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
firmbizzle Wrote:Explain to me how it's any different than when 95% of black people voted for Clinton, Gore, or Kerry. Not sure, but I think they were white. No Farrakhan ties at all. The church wasn't anti-white, Phlegler and many other white preachers preached in it. In fact, the church is part of the predominately white United Church of Christ which has give Wright many awards. Anyway what does that have to do with Barack Obama, I've never seen or heard him say malicious things. I don't consider the "bitter" comment malicious.

95% of black people didn't vote for Clinton, Gore, or Kerry. Next?

BTW, how has the plight of the black community improved since they switched from Republican to Democrat? Jesse's rich, Al's rich, Jeremiah's rich. How about everyone else? You know, the ones with the highest percentage of drop-out rates, out-of-wedlock births, murder rate, incarceration rate, recidivism race, etc.? How's it working out? Seems when black people were Republicans they had one of the strongest family structures in the country.

Why does it seem like fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you, and fool me 3, 4, 5, 6, infinity and thank you sir, may I have another is a motto for black Democrats?
09-22-2008 05:08 PM
Quote this message in a reply
DrTorch Offline
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
*

Posts: 35,887
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 201
I Root For: ASU, BGSU
Location:

CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #14
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
There is very little racism in America. The divides are cultural. Racism is simply a play by the media to get readers/ratings.
09-22-2008 07:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #15
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
I will vote for a black conservative over a white liberal ANY.DAY.OF.THE.WEEK.
09-22-2008 07:26 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Fo Shizzle Offline
Pragmatic Classical Liberal
*

Posts: 42,023
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 1206
I Root For: ECU PIRATES
Location: North Carolina

Balance of Power Contest
Post: #16
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
DrTorch Wrote:There is very little racism in America. The divides are cultural. Racism is simply a play by the media to get readers/ratings.

Ummm.....Not so sure about that. I understand the cultural divide, but I think if I was a black man Id say racism still exists all over.
09-22-2008 07:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #17
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Fo Shizzle Wrote:
DrTorch Wrote:There is very little racism in America. The divides are cultural. Racism is simply a play by the media to get readers/ratings.

Ummm.....Not so sure about that. I understand the cultural divide, but I think if I was a black man Id say racism still exists all over.

Because, chances are, you'd be a liberal and wanted to blame your status in life on someone else.

Conservatives DO try to pump up black people but they're ridiculed by the left, hello Keyes, treated like an uncle Tom, hello Clarence Thomas, or have Oreos thrown at them, hello Michael Steele. Oh, and all that **** was done by Democrats. Herman Cain, a black guy, is the MOST requested fill-in host on the Boortz show. ....and it's in the South.

I DO see racism. .....in the Democratic confines. BTW, I don't think the Republicans have a former KKK Grand Wizard as a senator. I could be wrong. [Image: sarcasm.gif]
09-22-2008 08:08 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Fo Shizzle Offline
Pragmatic Classical Liberal
*

Posts: 42,023
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 1206
I Root For: ECU PIRATES
Location: North Carolina

Balance of Power Contest
Post: #18
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Rebel Wrote:
Fo Shizzle Wrote:
DrTorch Wrote:There is very little racism in America. The divides are cultural. Racism is simply a play by the media to get readers/ratings.

Ummm.....Not so sure about that. I understand the cultural divide, but I think if I was a black man Id say racism still exists all over.

Because, chances are, you'd be a liberal and wanted to blame your status in life on someone else.

Conservatives DO try to pump up black people but they're ridiculed by the left, hello Keyes, treated like an uncle Tom, hello Clarence Thomas, or have Oreos thrown at them, hello Michael Steele. Oh, and all that **** was done by Democrats. Herman Cain, a black guy, is the MOST requested fill-in host on the Boortz show. ....and it's in the South.

I DO see racism. .....in the Democratic confines.

Ive been supervising a predominately black industrial workforce of between 60 to 70 employees for the past 25 years and listening to the things that they have relayed to me about the way they are treated (and have observed)qualifies me to understand that ...Yes...racism is still around.

I understand your point about black men that become successful. I have heard the "uncle tom" comments...but...That has nothing to do with the racism that most blacks encounter on a daily basis.
I think if you walk in their shoes for a few days...your opinion would change.
09-22-2008 08:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #19
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Fo, you don't know me. You don't know where "I've" walked. I'm a Mississippian and now a Georgian. I KNOW all of that. ...and I can tell you, it's misplaced and brought upon by reactionary "black leaders". They don't just stir up black people, they stir up white people as well. People like Jeremiah Wright cause this ****. You don't like us? Why in the **** are we supposed to like you? That ****. I mean, seriously. We're all in it together, why all the race pimps? I heard one yesterday coming back from Mississippi. A moron pastor by the name of William L. Wallace on AM 1430 in Tuscaloosa talking about how MLK was like Moses and Obama is like Josea and now it's time for the black people to lead the country. Sorry, and like I said, I'd vote in a HEARTBEAT for a CONSERVATIVE black person, but a liberal? NOT A ******* CHANCE! I do not WANT my country looking like New Orleans, Detroit, the inner city of Memphis, or Jackson. Sorry.
09-22-2008 08:30 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Fo Shizzle Offline
Pragmatic Classical Liberal
*

Posts: 42,023
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 1206
I Root For: ECU PIRATES
Location: North Carolina

Balance of Power Contest
Post: #20
RE: White racism may cost Obama the election
Rebel Wrote:Fo, you don't know me. You don't know where "I've" walked. I'm a Mississippian and now a Georgian. I KNOW all of that. ...and I can tell you, it's misplaced and brought upon by reactionary "black leaders". They don't just stir up black people, they stir up white people as well. People like Jeremiah Wright cause this ****. You don't like us? Why in the **** are we supposed to like you? That ****. I mean, seriously. We're all in it together, why all the race pimps? I heard one yesterday coming back from Mississippi. A moron pastor by the name of William L. Wallace on AM 1430 in Tuscaloosa talking about how MLK was like Moses and Obama is like Josea and now it's time for the black people to lead the country. Sorry, and like I said, I'd vote in a HEARTBEAT for a CONSERVATIVE black person, but a liberal? NOT A ******* CHANCE! I do not WANT my country looking like New Orleans, Detroit, the inner city of Memphis, or Jackson. Sorry.

I understand all that....What Im talking about is the "everyday" racism that these people encounter...from...poor ass customer service from businesses...to...harassment from law enforcement...to...having to listen to someone call them *******!!!....You are totally out of your mind if you think the you and I are treated on a daily basis the same as a black person...get real man!
09-22-2008 08:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.