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OT- LIQUID COAL
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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OT- LIQUID COAL
I've been hearing for about a month now about liquid coal. I'm not a car buff by any means. Would it be cheaper, offer the same power that oil does, and is it cleaner than oil.
06-23-2008 04:33 PM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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Post: #2
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
animus Wrote:I've been hearing for about a month now about liquid coal. I'm not a car buff by any means. Would it be cheaper, offer the same power that oil does, and is it cleaner than oil.

I'm not a coal expert, but I know there is tech to make coal a cleaner option.
06-23-2008 04:59 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #3
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
The fuel cell is the answer for the future. It's just not attractive, since cars made with this technology aren't as powerful. But the exhaust is water vapor. You can't get any cleaner than that.
06-23-2008 05:41 PM
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SF Husky Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
I found this site has a ton of info on how to convert your car to run on water. They said they have over 20K customers. Check it out. It is a DIY project and it does not seem to void the warranty. Perhaps this is the future vs. depleting more earth resources.

Information on how to run your car on water and double the MPG
06-23-2008 06:37 PM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
SF Husky Wrote:I found this site has a ton of info on how to convert your car to run on water. They said they have over 20K customers. Check it out. It is a DIY project and it does not seem to void the warranty. Perhaps this is the future vs. depleting more earth resources.

Information on how to run your car on water and double the MPG

Be careful with this nonsense. There are a bunch of scams with high gas prices. There is no such thing as running your car off of "water". There are hydrogen options, but I have yet to see something that you can pump a water hose into car. Not to mention you can void your warranty.

There are steps to lower your fuel costs today.

1) Keep your driving steady on the highway. Stay around 60MPH.
2) Look at your trunk. Do you have an extra 200lbs? Weight reduces MPG.
3) Keep your tire pressure at the proper range
4) Do not gun your car at a green light
5) Reduce your driving in rush hour traffic
6) Close your windows


Other than that, the new 2009 Toyota prius is rumored to get around 80MPG at the same price as the 2008 model.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2008 08:44 PM by KNIGHTTIME.)
06-23-2008 07:13 PM
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
My understanding is you have to catch the carbon created when you refine the coal into oil.. the tech is old and been around since hittler used it during ww2. I heard (don't know if its true) that europe has 4 plants being built right now. from what I have read we won't let anyone do it here at this time.. the plan is to pump the carbon right back into the earth rather than releasing it into the air. I wouldnt think there would be much difference in polution levels after the processing. they are already using the tech in canada that is needed for shale oil.. we have tons of potential if we would just use it. Make cars less gas thirsty, add some new nukes, convert many govt local use fleets to natural gas, keep developing hybreds, electrics, and fuel cells, and yes drill drill drill. and quit wasting corn on ethenol.
06-23-2008 09:45 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
See all over on the news here in Pittsburgh I'm hearing how liquid coal will be a reality and isn't some kind of a pipe dream. Man if this is true South West Pa and West Virginia will change its fortunes and will be 2 of the richest areas in the country.
06-23-2008 09:53 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
They've been talking about coal gasification around West Virginia for the last 30 years. I think I'll wait until it becomes a reality before I worry about learning more.

anyone want to bet I'll be dead first... 03-banghead
SF Husky Wrote:I found this site has a ton of info on how to convert your car to run on water. They said they have over 20K customers. Check it out. It is a DIY project and it does not seem to void the warranty. Perhaps this is the future vs. depleting more earth resources.

Information on how to run your car on water and double the MPG
If someone were to run their vehicle off water, they have to have electricity to break the water molecule's molecular bond, and we're not talking a small amount of electricity. It would eat a car battery's charge in no time flat. Once the vehicle is moving, without fuel cell technology, it would eat an alternator's output to keep breaking down water for fuel. Hydrogen technology isn't powerful, so people would have to put up with reduced performance. Your average American redneck isn't going to appreciate that one bit.

Also, the water is much more corrosive than even ethanol. You want to ruin your fuel lines, go ahead and water 'em down. You'll be replacing 'em every other year, if you're lucky.
06-24-2008 06:37 AM
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SF Husky Offline
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Post: #9
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
bitcruncher Wrote:They've been talking about coal gasification around West Virginia for the last 30 years. I think I'll wait until it becomes a reality before I worry about learning more.

anyone want to bet I'll be dead first... 03-banghead
SF Husky Wrote:I found this site has a ton of info on how to convert your car to run on water. They said they have over 20K customers. Check it out. It is a DIY project and it does not seem to void the warranty. Perhaps this is the future vs. depleting more earth resources.

Information on how to run your car on water and double the MPG
If someone were to run their vehicle off water, they have to have electricity to break the water molecule's molecular bond, and we're not talking a small amount of electricity. It would eat a car battery's charge in no time flat. Once the vehicle is moving, without fuel cell technology, it would eat an alternator's output to keep breaking down water for fuel. Hydrogen technology isn't powerful, so people would have to put up with reduced performance. Your average American redneck isn't going to appreciate that one bit.

Also, the water is much more corrosive than even ethanol. You want to ruin your fuel lines, go ahead and water 'em down. You'll be replacing 'em every other year, if you're lucky.


I would not dismiss it so easily. I think the technology is for real and there have been many reports on it. Here is a link to some news reports on the technology. I think water could potentially be a great source of energy. USA is only 4% of the population yet we consume 25% of the oil in the world. I don't think this is good for now or for the future. We need to develop cars that run on anything other than oil. Water is everywhere and it is recycled so any kind of water based fuel would be awesome.

News Stories On Run Your Car On Water Technology
06-24-2008 01:22 PM
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mlb Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
Just think of what running your car with water would do... right now there are water shortages in lots of areas around the country, that would only make it worse.

Are we going to start some major desalination plants around the country to take salt out of water in the oceans? Otherwise it just shifts the shortage from oil to water.
06-24-2008 01:32 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
mlb Wrote:Just think of what running your car with water would do... right now there are water shortages in lots of areas around the country, that would only make it worse.

Are we going to start some major desalination plants around the country to take salt out of water in the oceans? Otherwise it just shifts the shortage from oil to water.

I tend to agree with that.

I myself is all for an alternative fuel source. But until we have a viable new fuel source we have to use oil. If the US starts drilling more off our coastlines and in AMIR(think i spelled it wrong but you get the point) and is working on developing liquid coal, this will force OPEC to drop the price of a barrel of oil. Even China is leaning towards Liquid Coal. So with the top 2 consumers of Arabian Oil starting to be more dependent or is threatening to be more indepenent of their oil. Where will the worlds buyers of their oil come from. But again this is only a plan which I doubt will happen because it makes too much sence. I want to research this a little more so if anyone has any links on Liquid Coal shoot it in the thread for everyone 2 see. This is important stuff right here.
06-24-2008 02:12 PM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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Post: #12
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
SF Husky Wrote:I would not dismiss it so easily. I think the technology is for real and there have been many reports on it. Here is a link to some news reports on the technology. I think water could potentially be a great source of energy. USA is only 4% of the population yet we consume 25% of the oil in the world. I don't think this is good for now or for the future. We need to develop cars that run on anything other than oil. Water is everywhere and it is recycled so any kind of water based fuel would be awesome.

News Stories On Run Your Car On Water Technology

Do you understand how engines operate? Water is not flammable and will not work to move a car. The only other option is some high tech device that would turn it into hydrogen gas which could be very dangerous to convert underneath your hood. The amount of energy needed for that conversion would also take energy of some kind. Where is that coming from? More water? sure! Fuel cells, solar, and hybrids are the viable options.

I'm waiting to see more results of the 2009 version of the Prius. The rumor is they increased the engine size while jumping the MPG to 80-100. I'm guessing they have solar conversions along with the hybrid tech, but we shall see.

Most of the reports of running your car from your garden hose is a scam. Be very careful of scams and be careful you don't void your warranty on your car.
06-24-2008 02:30 PM
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SF Husky Offline
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Post: #13
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
I did my part. I am driving a hybrid now and I highly recommend everyone does the same. I think it would be really neat if we can develop technology to run on water. Water can be recycled. I think it would be easier to develop water recycling plants vs. just drilling for more oil.
06-24-2008 02:46 PM
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mlb Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
SF Husky Wrote:I did my part. I am driving a hybrid now and I highly recommend everyone does the same. I think it would be really neat if we can develop technology to run on water. Water can be recycled. I think it would be easier to develop water recycling plants vs. just drilling for more oil.

Really all the engine does is split the water up, releasing oxygen and hydrogen as gasses and allowing for combustion. I'm not sure that the water at that point can be recycled as the gasses join the atmosphere. Instead, like I said before, we would need to take the water from the oceans rather than freshwater sources, which would then require desalination. Desalination is not a cheap process either.
06-24-2008 03:03 PM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
SF Husky Wrote:I did my part. I am driving a hybrid now and I highly recommend everyone does the same. I think it would be really neat if we can develop technology to run on water. Water can be recycled. I think it would be easier to develop water recycling plants vs. just drilling for more oil.

Hybrid is one of the few realistic options right now. Water is not an option. Here is a good example of someone that knows how realistic pumping water into your car would be.

"Water as a engine fuel is one of the oldest penny stock scams there is.

Water is not a source of chemical energy.

Many people are confused by this. The answer above by pushstroke is a good example.

Pushstroke uses the example of steam.

The source of the energy is the fuel that is used to boil the water and turn it into steam, not the steam itself.

The steam is merely a means to transfer the energy to the piston in the engine.

Other misconceptions are that since water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen all we have to do is separate the hydrogen from the oxygen and burn the hydrogen and...

VOILA! WE GET FREE ENERGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately it does not work that way.

It takes far more energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen than you get back when you burn the hydrogen.

One way of splitting the hydrogen is through a process that is called electrolysis. This process uses electrical energy.

The currently available equipment that you can buy off the shelf works at approximately 60 to 70% efficiency, depending on how fast you want the reaction to run.

The faster the reaction, the lower the efficiency.

With this equipment running at 70% efficiency it requires approximately 50 kilowatt hours of electricity to produce an amount of hydrogen with the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline.

If you "burn" that amount of hydrogen in a fuel cell to produce electricity you will get approximately 15 to 18 kilowatt hours of electricity back, depending on the efficiency of the fuel cell.

Again, the faster you run the reaction in the fuel cell, the lower the efficiency.

Since you only get 15 to 18 kilowatt hours of electricity back for every 50 kilowatt hours that you spend, this clearly is not a way to create energy.

Electrolysis has been proposed as a means to store electrical energy when you have excess generating capacity.

For example in France they get over 80% of their electricity from nuclear power plants.

You do not just start and stop a nuclear power plant. The plant runs 24 hours per day.

At night you have a huge excess of generating capacity.

The French use some of that excess generating capacity at night to produce hydrogen electrolytically. The hydrogen is then used to fuel vehicles such as buses during the day.

As you can see this is a rather ineficient process because you only get back 15 to 18 kilowatt hours of electricity for every 50 kilowatt hours that you spend.

However when you have excess generating capacity it is better to get something back rather than nothing.

The other way that has been proposed to get energy out of water is to use the hydrogen in a fusion reaction.

A fusion reaction is essentially a nuclear reaction. It is the source of energy in our sun and the hydrogen bomb.

The hydrogen bomb is a very powerful nuclear weapon. It is far more powerful than the Uranium or Plutonium nuclear weapons.

Unfortunately we have never been able to figure out how to contain a fusion reaction. We have been trying to figure that out for the past 50 years or so.

So far we have been unsuccessful.

We probably will not be able to figure out how to contain a fusion reaction for at least the next 50 to 100 years, if then.


Unfortunately until we figure out how to contain a fusion reaction, water is not a source of energy as an engine fuel or for any other purpose.

If someone calls you offering you a penny stock in a company that says they have an amazing new technology that uses water as a fuel, hang up on them, bacause it is a scam."
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06-24-2008 03:30 PM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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Post: #16
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
mlb Wrote:Really all the engine does is split the water up, releasing oxygen and hydrogen as gasses and allowing for combustion. I'm not sure that the water at that point can be recycled as the gasses join the atmosphere. Instead, like I said before, we would need to take the water from the oceans rather than freshwater sources, which would then require desalination. Desalination is not a cheap process either.

The problem is it takes more energy to split the water into Hydrogen. At best you're looking at around a 50% loss of energy. I'm not sure how safe it is to split hydrogen underneath your hood either.
06-24-2008 03:38 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #17
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
SF Husky Wrote:
bitcruncher Wrote:They've been talking about coal gasification around West Virginia for the last 30 years. I think I'll wait until it becomes a reality before I worry about learning more.

anyone want to bet I'll be dead first... 03-banghead
SF Husky Wrote:I found this site has a ton of info on how to convert your car to run on water. They said they have over 20K customers. Check it out. It is a DIY project and it does not seem to void the warranty. Perhaps this is the future vs. depleting more earth resources.

Information on how to run your car on water and double the MPG
If someone were to run their vehicle off water, they have to have electricity to break the water molecule's molecular bond, and we're not talking a small amount of electricity. It would eat a car battery's charge in no time flat. Once the vehicle is moving, without fuel cell technology, it would eat an alternator's output to keep breaking down water for fuel. Hydrogen technology isn't powerful, so people would have to put up with reduced performance. Your average American redneck isn't going to appreciate that one bit.

Also, the water is much more corrosive than even ethanol. You want to ruin your fuel lines, go ahead and water 'em down. You'll be replacing 'em every other year, if you're lucky.
I would not dismiss it so easily. I think the technology is for real and there have been many reports on it. Here is a link to some news reports on the technology. I think water could potentially be a great source of energy. USA is only 4% of the population yet we consume 25% of the oil in the world. I don't think this is good for now or for the future. We need to develop cars that run on anything other than oil. Water is everywhere and it is recycled so any kind of water based fuel would be awesome.

News Stories On Run Your Car On Water Technology
I'm not dismissing it easily. I've researched this extensively, and the technology isn't what its advertised to be. It's energy is a prohibitive expense. The energy needed to break the hydrogen bond is greater than the energy available from the burning of hydrogen.
06-24-2008 04:26 PM
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Post: #18
RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
mlb Wrote:Just think of what running your car with water would do... right now there are water shortages in lots of areas around the country, that would only make it worse.

Are we going to start some major desalination plants around the country to take salt out of water in the oceans? Otherwise it just shifts the shortage from oil to water.

yeah but if you could fill up in iowa or misouri.. you would be helping out tons..
06-24-2008 05:10 PM
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RE: OT- LIQUID COAL
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06-25-2008 10:12 AM
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