I have been reading some of "Tallgrass" like rants on the C-USA board and find them pretty funny... He thinks the the C-USA Bowls are so much better than the MWC Bowls that C-USA could draw a MWC team like BYU & Utah, or TCU. Honestly the MWC Bowls are not great but neither are C-USA. The MWC chose to walk away from the Liberty Bowl, BYU and Utah both lost money the years they played in the Liberty Bowl.
But why don't we just look at the Bowls...

C-USA;
Liberty Bowl- $1.5 million
St. Pete Bowl- $750,000 (I'm guessing)
GMAC Bowl- $750,000
Armed Forces Bowl- $600,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
New Orleans Bowl- $325,000
Grand Total- $4,425,000 / 12 = $368,750

MWC;
Las Vegas Bowl- $1 million
Poinsettia Bowl- $750,000
Armed Forces Bowl- $600,000
New Mexico Bowl- $750,000
Grand Total- $3,100,000 / 9 = $344,444.44

So it's pretty dang close as it stands, that's providing the MWC does not gain an at-large bid (maybe even a BC$ bid)...

Looking at the 2007 Bowl Season for each conference...
C-USA;
Liberty Bowl- $1.5 million
GMAC Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Hawaii Bowl- $398,000
New Orleans Bowl- $325,000
Papajohns.com Bowl- $300,000
Grand Total- $3,773,000 / 12 = $314,416.67

MWC;
Las Vegas Bowl- $1 million
Poinsettia Bowl- $750,000
Armed Forces Bowl- $600,000
New Mexico Bowl- $750,000
Texas Bowl- $500,000
Grand Total- $3,600,000 / 9 = $400,000

Now it gets way worse went you add in the BC$ monies providing the pay out was the same as 2006...
C-USA was 3rd in the non-Auto rankings earning $2,486,400 / 12 = $207,200... So combined is $6,259,400 / 12 = $521,616.67
MWC was 1st in the non-Auto rankings earning $3,529,600 / 9 = $392,177.78... So combined is $7,129,600 / 9 = $792,177.78

Now granted there is not equal splits and there is expenses for the teams traveling to the Bowls (were the C-USA paid for 6 teams and the MWC paid for 5 teams)... But the fact of the matter is the MWC has made more over the last 2 years (2006 & 2007) than the C-USA in this regard...

Tough I agree, Hooking up with BYU & Utah if they go independent is little far fetched. However his theory is good. He looking to negotiate 12 team & 14 team fb package & take the best deal. I think Temple & Navy would be intrested. Even tough, Army-Navy & ND game would have to be worked out. Navy is looking to be part of a bowl package. Navy also has there own TV contract, Navy will cost money to be part of this deal. Temple draws 25,000 check from MAC & has good non-conf sch lined up. Temple would proablly settle for extra travell expenses to be covered, in other words Temple would come cheap.
Even if 14 team package comes out even with 12 team package, travell expenses would go down & Atten would improve. Also C-USA has alot of bowls in there footprint that need backup, or become available. Indepedence or Birmingham look for conf tie-in, C-USA would be able to supply a team.

I can see BYU & Utah having no intrest in C-USA bowls. Even tough TCU is committed to MWC. they have to see C-USA bowl package & TV contract & the growth of C-USA and admit C-USA commissioner is doing great job.

these bowl payouts fluctuate. What did MWC get from Texas bowl, MWC proablly got some back payment also

templefootballfan Wrote:I can see BYU & Utah having no intrest in C-USA bowls. Even tough TCU is committed to MWC. they have to see C-USA bowl package & TV contract & the growth of C-USA and admit C-USA commissioner is doing great job.

There is another thing to question... Is the C-USA TV package better than the MWC? Here is how I see it...

C-USA's TV Package pays around $11.5 million per year, partnered with ESPN, CBS Sports, and CBS for their Championship Basketball game. They have also got a few games Regionally on MASN and CSS.
Doing the simple version of math- $11.5 million / 12 = $958,333.33

The MWC's TV Package pays around $12 million per year, partnered with CBS Sports and the mtn, with games subcontracted out to Versus.
Doing the simple version of math- $12 million / 9 = $1,333,333.33

Now that the mtn is on Direct TV coming this Fall, I don't see how anyone could even dream that C-USA deal is better. But, hey that's IMO... We are talking about the heath of all the members not a select few that ESPN deems worthy of their great gift of exposure. Look what happened this year to Southern Miss went they said they did not want to play on Weekdays. ESPN more or less "Blackball" them, thus no Southern Miss football games made it on ESPN under C-USA contract not even their match-up with Boise St. Then looking at the Basketball side of their contract with ESPN, only 2 of C-USA's ESPN games did not include Memphis and oddly enough they both included Houston.
Pick any MWC team and you will see they all get good exposure...
Here is an example, looking at Wyoming last year for Football & Basketball;
Football- 1 game on Versus, 1 game on CSTV, and 8 games on the mtn (that's all of the game the MWC had control of)
Basketball- 0 game on Versus, 4 game on CSTV, and 14 games on the mtn (that's 18 of the 30 games they played in)...

templefootballfan Wrote:these bowl payouts fluctuate. What did MWC get from Texas bowl, MWC proablly got some back payment also

I don't know the most current information I have right now is this from the 2006 Bowl season;
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/f...outs_x.htm
I'm always looking for an update to get more current numbers...
Now I know some of it could be a little off, like the Las Vegas Bowl pays the Pac 10 $950,000, but the MWC made over a $1 million in 2006. The last 3 years BYU has sold their alloted tickets plus the ones the Pac 10 school could not sell (around 6,000 of the Pac 10's 12,000 allotted the last 2 years). So the Las Vegas Bowl knows who has been buttering their bread went it comes to tickets sold. Plus it was also agreement (to pay over $1 million) they made with the MWC for getting there first choice.

By the way I don't see C-USA signing with both ESPN and CBS Sports the next TV contract negotiations. It was a total fluke how it came about this last time, when ESPN used their out clause to reduce what they paid C-USA after the Big East raid.
See if I can summarize what happened in a quick version;
ESPN and C-USA signed a contract that would pay around $7 million a year. Before the contract even came close to taking effect (signed a few years early), the raid happened. Louisville and TCU, 2 of the best football schools were now gone... Also on the basketball side, they lost Louisville, Cincinnati, and the basketball only schools. ESPN thought the value of C-USA was no longer as high (which looks like they were right), thus they wanted to change what they were paying C-USA. ESPN ended up using an out clause and reduced what they would pay to around $3.5 million a year, because around half of C-USA members were different since the deal was signed. But in doing so it also opened up a clause for C-USA that ESPN no longer controlled all of their National TV rights. Thus entered the chance to also sign with CSTV, which from what I read did not make ESPN very happy.
So in short, I don't see CBS Sports and ESPN wanting to do the same type deal the next go around. Since currently ESPN gets the first selection and CBS Sports picks from the leftovers, yet CBS Sports pays C-USA more than double what ESPN is paying them. IMO, the chances of C-USA signing a deal with ESPN this next go around will be slim to none.

I was aware of C-USA TV package & how it came about. that's why Tallgrass wants to beef them up with 2 new markets. However you call it a fluke, somebody in C-USA knows what thier doing because always turns into a postive. I was stunded when new bowls were announced, I know bowl certication head was from SoMiss. But in negotiating with BE & ESPN standing with them, C-USA gives up Bir & ends up with St Pete & Texas bowl. How does that happen? Now the BE might not need Texas bowl, But I would have waited to see How many BE teams were eligable, SEC could supply a team to Bir, what matchups looked like & what at-large were around. Then if BE doesn't need bowl, give it up Dec 8th.

templefootballfan Wrote:I was aware of C-USA TV package & how it came about. that's why Tallgrass wants to beef them up with 2 new markets. However you call it a fluke, somebody in C-USA knows what thier doing because always turns into a postive. I was stunded when new bowls were announced, I know bowl certication head was from SoMiss. But in negotiating with BE & ESPN standing with them, C-USA gives up Bir & ends up with St Pete & Texas bowl. How does that happen? Now the BE might not need Texas bowl, But I would have waited to see How many BE teams were eligable, SEC could supply a team to Bir, what matchups looked like & what at-large were around. Then if BE doesn't need bowl, give it up Dec 8th.

I sure would call it a fluke... How many times do you think ESPN has ever gave up their exclusive National Broadcast rights. In the original deal they signed for the $7 million a year ESPN had exclusive National broadcasting right rights of ALL C-USA's sporting events (except for C-USA Championship Basketball game which CBS had and still has). Only after ESPN used their out clause and reduced what they were going to pay C-USA by half, only then was C-USA able to work a deal with CSTV. Quick question, how many times has ESPN ever let a non-Auto conference get a one up on them?

I wouldn't count on CUSA not doing just fine next time around. ESPN was part of the new bowl deal work out.. and they definatly helped the BE and CUSA in the set up. They moved liberty to jan 2 for at least one year.. It gives them a SEC/CUSA game last year the ratings were very good. they helped in the papa/tropicana deal.. which gave them a BE/SEC game.. but also a better location BE/CUSA match up. for CUSA the tex bowl lock in was just extra gravy. CUSA isn't yet where it was but it is steadily improving.. and will be worth more the next go around.

How many times has ESPN let C-USA get over on them, the anwser is 2.
I can see C-USA signing with both networks & it would depend how much CBS wants to expand thier programming to end up in bidding war. ESPN would have intrest in Memphis BB who had great ratings, there are at least 12 non-conf Fb games they would be intrested in & more in BB. C-USA being located in large cities & warm weather are ideal for off night games.
With the competion between college networks [Fox,ESPN,CBS,B-10network & if nfl network wants to get invoved] growing, non-BCS conf are becoming more valuable to fill out programing. C-USA is in great spot with weather, # of teams & markets to captolize.

goodknightfl Wrote:I wouldn't count on CUSA not doing just fine next time around. ESPN was part of the new bowl deal work out.. and they definatly helped the BE and CUSA in the set up. They moved liberty to jan 2 for at least one year.. It gives them a SEC/CUSA game last year the ratings were very good. they helped in the papa/tropicana deal.. which gave them a BE/SEC game.. but also a better location BE/CUSA match up. for CUSA the tex bowl lock in was just extra gravy. CUSA isn't yet where it was but it is steadily improving.. and will be worth more the next go around.

Was the new Bowl for the Big East or C-USA or both or for ESPN? If I were you I wouldn't read to much into ESPN helping C-USA get another Bowl game, because ESPN in in the business of making money. Just look at the MWC Bowls, 3 of the 4 MWC Bowl are owned by ESPN and ESPN started the NEW Mexico Bowl after the MWC left them.

templefootballfan Wrote:How many times has ESPN let C-USA get over on them, the anwser is 2.
I can see C-USA signing with both networks & it would depend how much CBS wants to expand thier programming to end up in bidding war. ESPN would have intrest in Memphis BB who had great ratings, there are at least 12 non-conf Fb games they would be intrested in & more in BB. C-USA being located in large cities & warm weather are ideal for off night games.
With the competion between college networks [Fox,ESPN,CBS,B-10network & if nfl network wants to get invoved] growing, non-BCS conf are becoming more valuable to fill out programing. C-USA is in great spot with weather, # of teams & markets to captolize.

And just what would be the 2?

Sorry but I don't see more than 1% chance that it will happen. A bidding war over C-USA??? I don't see that happening, ESPN has been very firm on their take or leave it stance with the non-Auto conferences. It's also not like CBS Sports does not have other options, just like ESPN that they can sign for a whole lot less than what they are paying C-USA.
Sure ESPN would like to keep Memphis basketball games, but everyone knows football is the main source of revenue for the non-Auto conferences TV contract.

ESPN contracts with the non-Auto D1 conferences;
C-USA- $3.5 million a year
WAC- $1 million a year
MAC- $500,000 a year
Sun Belt- less than the MAC (not sure, but sound like in the $200,000 to $250,000 range)

CSTV contracts with the non-Auto D1 conferences;
MWC- $12 million a year
C-USA- $8 million a year

Over the last 2 year, each non-Auto bid conference has been ranked by the BC$ to determine the BC$ payment to each conference. The ranking has been the exact same over the 2 years;

MWC- #1
WAC- #2
C-USA- #3
MAC- #4 (although the Sun Belt almost over took them in 2007)
Sun Belt- #5

Now basketball is a little harder to determine, the strength of a conference (RPI, teams sent to NCAA's, and ranked teams). For this example I'm using RealTimeRPI.com for the last 2 years (only goes back one year);

Conference... 2 year Average... 2008-07... 2007-06
MWC... 0.5389, 8.5... 0.5262, #9... 0.5516, #8
C-USA... 0.5136, 10.5... 0.5175, #10... 0.5097, #11
WAC... 0.5029, 14.0... 0.4813, #19... 0.5244, #9
MAC... 0.4952, 13.5... 0.4972, #12... 0.4932, #15
Sun Belt... 0.4830, 17.5... 0.4907, #15... 0.4752, #20

Not sure how much the RPI means, but it's not like the C-USA is a dominating basketball conference. Memphis has been amazing, but one team does not make an conference, look what happened to the WAC last year with Nevada's off season. In fact the MWC is leading by a large margin in the the RPI over the 2 seasons...
MWC is 0.0253 ahead of C-USA
Were as;
C-USA is 0.0107 ahead of the WAC
C-USA is 0.0184 ahead of the MAC
C-USA is 0.0306 ahead of the Sun Belt

So, just looking at the numbers it's not like the WAC, MAC, and Sun Belt are perform that much less than C-USA, in fact some would say the WAC has preformed a little better over the last few years. Yet looking at the difference in what the other 3 make compared to C-USA and MWC is nuts.
Did you know CSTV offered the WAC a $3 million a year deal? ESPN forced the WAC's hand and gave them every little time to look at the CSTV deal by setting a deadline date that the WAC had to accept their offer or there would be no offer. Without the time to really look at the CSTV offer and fear of taking a chance with a new company, the WAC signed with ESPN for 3 times less than what CSTV would have paid.

I find it funny how C-USA and WAC fans, talk about getting ESPN and CBS Sports in a bidding war. ESPN does not work that way for non-Auto conferences as far as I've seen. ESPN offered the MWC a 7 year deal for $40 million after that CSTV offer came in at 7 years for $82 million. The MWC told ESPN that CSTV offer doubled their offer and wanted to give ESPN a chance to make a counter offer, ESPN told the MWC their offer was on the table take it or leave it. A little history, when the MWC was formed the MWC worked a deal with ESPN, 7 years for $48 million. Now after the contract is about up and the MWC is adding a really good program in TCU, ESPN is wanting to reduce the MWC new contract by $8 million. Talk about a slapping the MWC in the face....

E-zone Wrote:

goodknightfl Wrote:I wouldn't count on CUSA not doing just fine next time around. ESPN was part of the new bowl deal work out.. and they definatly helped the BE and CUSA in the set up. They moved liberty to jan 2 for at least one year.. It gives them a SEC/CUSA game last year the ratings were very good. they helped in the papa/tropicana deal.. which gave them a BE/SEC game.. but also a better location BE/CUSA match up. for CUSA the tex bowl lock in was just extra gravy. CUSA isn't yet where it was but it is steadily improving.. and will be worth more the next go around.

Was the new Bowl for the Big East or C-USA or both or for ESPN? If I were you I wouldn't read to much into ESPN helping C-USA get another Bowl game, because ESPN in in the business of making money. Just look at the MWC Bowls, 3 of the 4 MWC Bowl are owned by ESPN and ESPN started the NEW Mexico Bowl after the MWC left them.

that was my point.. not that ESPN was doing CUSA a favor but rather that it was to the benefit of ESPN to be in both the BE and CUSA's corner on the bowl deal reshuffle. I don't know how the whole tv deal will work out.. but I wouldn't bet against CUSA in it.. compared to the big 6 we are a bargain for ESPN, and we fill a needed time slot with game amongst mostly large schools in large tv markets..no one else does that for espn.

goodknightfl Wrote:

E-zone Wrote:

goodknightfl Wrote:I wouldn't count on CUSA not doing just fine next time around. ESPN was part of the new bowl deal work out.. and they definatly helped the BE and CUSA in the set up. They moved liberty to jan 2 for at least one year.. It gives them a SEC/CUSA game last year the ratings were very good. they helped in the papa/tropicana deal.. which gave them a BE/SEC game.. but also a better location BE/CUSA match up. for CUSA the tex bowl lock in was just extra gravy. CUSA isn't yet where it was but it is steadily improving.. and will be worth more the next go around.

Was the new Bowl for the Big East or C-USA or both or for ESPN? If I were you I wouldn't read to much into ESPN helping C-USA get another Bowl game, because ESPN in in the business of making money. Just look at the MWC Bowls, 3 of the 4 MWC Bowl are owned by ESPN and ESPN started the NEW Mexico Bowl after the MWC left them.

that was my point.. not that ESPN was doing CUSA a favor but rather that it was to the benefit of ESPN to be in both the BE and CUSA's corner on the bowl deal reshuffle. I don't know how the whole tv deal will work out.. but I wouldn't bet against CUSA in it.. compared to the big 6 we are a bargain for ESPN, and we fill a needed time slot with game amongst mostly large schools in large tv markets..no one else does that for espn.

TV Markets:
SMU- #5 Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX- 2,435,600 Households
Rice & Houston- #10 Houston, TX- 2,050,550 Households
Central Florida- #19 Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne, FL 1,434,050 Households
UAB- #40 Birmingham (Anniston and Tuscaloosa), AL- 730,430 Households
Memphis- #47 Memphis, TN- 667,890 Households
Tulane- #53 New Orleans, LA- 600,150 Households
Tulsa- #60 Tulsa, OK- 519,820 Households
Marshall- #65 Charleston-Huntington, WV- 476,680 Households
Southern Miss- #90 Jackson, MS- 334,200 Households
UTEP- #98 El Paso, TX- 302,470 Households
East Carolina- #105 Greenville-New Bern-Washington, NC- 276,020 Households

Not sure if Southern Miss falls in the Jackson, MS or Mobil, AL (Pensacola) market? All are wonderful markets, but problem is how many people really care about the C-USA programs in those markets? A example would be UAB and Bama are in the same market, check the attendance of the 2 big sports for this past season.
UAB Football- 16,706 per game vs Bama Football 92,138 per game
UAB Basketball- 5,011 per game vs Bama Basketball 10,369 per game
Or
Neighboring Markets- New Orleans and Baton Rouge are 79 miles apart...
Tulane Football- 26,112 per game vs LSU Football 92,619 per game
Tulane Basketball- 2,060 per game vs LSU Basketball 8,565 per game
Or
Like schools (both non-Auto) in the same market...
SMU Football- 17,171 per game vs TCU Football 30,018 per game
SMU Basketball- 2,944 per game vs TCU Basketball 3,529 per game
or even North Texas in Denton (same market)
Football- 17,734 per game; Basketball- 2,928 per game

Just because a team happens to be in a market it does not mean they control that market. just look at the WAC...
San Jose St- #6 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA- 2,419,440 Households
Utah St- #35 Salt Lake City, UT- 874,650 Households
Fresno St- #55 Fresno-Visalia, CA- 568,730 Households
Hawaii- #73 Honolulu, HI- 424,010 Households
Idaho- #77 Spokane, WA- 403,820 Households
La Tech- #82 Shreveport, LA- 383,610 Households
New Mexico St- #98 El Paso, TX- 302,470 Households
Nevada- #110 Reno, NV- 263,060 Households
Boise St- #113 Boise, ID- 251,920 Households

Their is no way San Jose St, Utah St, Idaho, La Tech, and New Mexico St control a very big part of their market. But in the case of Utah St, Idaho, and New Mexico St they over lap into other markets and can because their is no BC$ schools in those States. Utah St over laps into South-Eastern part of Idaho (Pocatello-Idaho Falls market), a lot more than into Salt Lake. Idaho has a lot of grads that live in the Boise area, thus they over lap into the Boise market. New Mexico St and New Mexico are the only 2 D1 Universities in New Mexico and the both have fans across the state, thus New Mexico St over laps into Albuquerque-Santa Fe market. The WAC has programs like Hawaii and Boise St who really control their whole States market. Hawaii is a no-brainer.... Boise St's football game are locally broadcast in the Boise, Spokane (WA), and Twin Falls markets, that's 718,330 households which would rank 42nd in TV markets in the USA. The Boise St games being broadcast in Spokane market says something IMO, since that is Washington St's and the U of Idaho's local market.