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Huckabee on Theocracy
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Post: #1
Huckabee on Theocracy
This is one reason that I think Huckabee is unqualified.

Quote:"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."
01-16-2008 09:15 AM
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Fanatical Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Which god is he talking about?
01-16-2008 10:11 AM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:This is one reason that I think Huckabee is unqualified.

Quote:"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

Methinks L. Ron Hubbard would disagree with Mr. Huckabee. I share your reservations, and also note that Romney is just as bad (speaking of which, shouldn't Joseph Smith earn a nod from Mr. Huckabee?).
01-16-2008 10:13 AM
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Post: #4
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Fanatical Wrote:Which god is he talking about?

The only one that exists.
01-16-2008 10:35 AM
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mlb Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Interesting... that is different than other things he has said about people being able to believe what they want to believe. I'd like to know the whole context of what was said.
01-16-2008 10:53 AM
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Bourgeois_Rage Away
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Post: #6
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
fsquid Wrote:
Fanatical Wrote:Which god is he talking about?

The only one that exists.

Good thing we have Mr. Huckabee to tell us which one that is.

mlb Wrote:Interesting... that is different than other things he has said about people being able to believe what they want to believe. I'd like to know the whole context of what was said.
I can't be sure, but I think it was in regards to a 'defense of marriage act'.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2008 10:58 AM by Bourgeois_Rage.)
01-16-2008 10:57 AM
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Post: #7
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
How much you want to bet that all the people that blast Ron Paul for having "kooky positions" or "kooky supporters" will remain silent on Huckabee? Huckabee does have the support of a political group here in SC that abdicates outright theocracy. I don't hear anybody calling him or his supporters kooky now....

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01-16-2008 01:20 PM
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Post: #8
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
He's not talking about a "Theocracy", he's talking about a Constitutional Amendment(something that is constitutional). I beleive on the issue's of life and probably marriage. Not a national religion

Duncan Hunter and Paul have both had legislation to define that "Life Starts at conception", i.e. what science and the bible/God says. The problem with that type of legislation is that it would be thrown out rather quickly by SCOTUS because the Constitution says it applies to "Those born in"....they likely know their legislation is pointless, however political. atleast hunter.

to actually get that accomplished it would take a Constitutional Amendment. Which I beleive is what he's referring to, unless he's talking about the issue of Marriage. In which case he wants to constitutionally amend the Constitution to make it match the way Americans for the last two centuries have defined marriage themselves, not to mention the biblical view.

the problem with Huck, other than his governing record in a Democrat controlled/dominated state, is he's going too far with his rhetoric and playing into the hands of the secular left.

World Mag had an article on this recently, titled: "Republicans need to be more like Sam Adams"

WorldMag doesn't give the full article, however I googled it and found on a Huckabee site, interesting argument. It addresses that point and mentions Huckabee directly. So far he's not listening.....although I'd imagine if he has a Political IQ, which he does, he'd tone it down considerably in the general.
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01-16-2008 01:51 PM
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Bourgeois_Rage Away
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Post: #9
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
GGniner Wrote:He's not talking about a "Theocracy", he's talking about a Constitutional Amendment(something that is constitutional). I beleive on the issue's of life and probably marriage. Not a national religion

What part is unclear about "And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards"? I don't think Huckabee is going to come in and set a national religion. What he seemingly is saying is that he'll change the constitution so that it doesn't have to mention God because all of God's laws will be in it.
01-16-2008 02:46 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:
GGniner Wrote:He's not talking about a "Theocracy", he's talking about a Constitutional Amendment(something that is constitutional). I beleive on the issue's of life and probably marriage. Not a national religion

What part is unclear about "And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards"? I don't think Huckabee is going to come in and set a national religion. What he seemingly is saying is that he'll change the constitution so that it doesn't have to mention God because all of God's laws will be in it.


"God's standards" = Life and marriage issues. i.e. "Life starts and conception" and Marriage is 1 man and 1 woman, defined. atleast thats what I beleive he's referring to.

you don't have to be a Christian to beleive in that, or to recognize their judeo-christian orgins. That's not really a "theocracy". Just like many of the 10 commandments are in our laws and Constitution...........Now if he wants to admend the Constitution to outlaw Adultery, then there's something there. But I think he's talking about the 2 hot button Social Con. issues, Abortion and Gay Marriage, whether or not they are federal issues is another debate.


I also think the Hucksters larger point here, is directed towards Christians, obviously, which was his audience and is saying that you can't change the word of the living God as much as the world wants to(and liberal theology does), and comparing to the Constitution which allows for amendments.

as a sidenote, many of the "theonomist" that I know(Theonomy = God's Law) don't support Huckabee. I don't either and would prefer a more federalist candidate, though would vote for him if nominated.
01-16-2008 03:10 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Online
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Post: #11
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:This is one reason that I think Huckabee is unqualified.

Quote:"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

Way to take a small item a twist it out of context. It is related to defense of marriage and regardless of religion the majority (and I think the constitution says majority rule unless a judge has overruled) of people want marriage defined as 1 man and 1 woman. A constitutional amendment is needed so the leftist judges won't legislate a definition of marriage from the bench.

I personally think the government should support marriage as defined above and give a equal legal status to civil unions.

I guess for now civil unions would be two people in a monogamus relationship. With the way this country's moral compass is heading who's to say that it will always be defined as two people... ala Tom, Rosanne, & ....
01-16-2008 05:15 PM
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Fanatical Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
How does a gay marriage harm anyone, or impede on anyone else's rights to the point that a constitutional amendment is needed?
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2008 06:29 PM by Fanatical.)
01-16-2008 06:25 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Fanatical Wrote:How does a gay marriage harm anyone, or impede on anyone else's rights to the point that a constitutional amendment is needed?

Eventually Leftwing judges will force Christian Churches who believe Same Sex Marriage is wrong to perform Same Sex Marriages or lose the authority to perform any marriage, thereby forcing their values onto others. Forcing values onto others, isn't that the most common reason people give for not liking Christians, and we don't even have the power to impose values as laws through court rulings.
01-16-2008 06:41 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
I45owl Wrote:
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:This is one reason that I think Huckabee is unqualified.

Quote:"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

Methinks L. Ron Hubbard would disagree with Mr. Huckabee. I share your reservations, and also note that Romney is just as bad (speaking of which, shouldn't Joseph Smith earn a nod from Mr. Huckabee?).

03-lmfao L. Ron Hubbard now there's a religion, I wonder if he ever bought that stairway to heaven that Jesus talked about. 03-lmfao Scientology isn't everyone a god in that Cult?
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2008 05:17 AM by THE NC Herd Fan.)
01-16-2008 06:44 PM
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Post: #15
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:
GGniner Wrote:He's not talking about a "Theocracy", he's talking about a Constitutional Amendment(something that is constitutional). I beleive on the issue's of life and probably marriage. Not a national religion

What part is unclear about "And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards"? I don't think Huckabee is going to come in and set a national religion. What he seemingly is saying is that he'll change the constitution so that it doesn't have to mention God because all of God's laws will be in it.

For a guy who is usually pretty level-headed on all issues, you seemed to have really spun this one statement about one item into an all encompassing march towards a "Theocracy". I have to say that I am a little disappointed.
01-16-2008 08:16 PM
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RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
A newly-formed group of Christian activists has begun plans to encourage up to 12,000 like-minded individuals to move to South Carolina. Their hope is to eventually withdraw that state from the United States and "reestablish the sovereign Christian nation of South Carolina."

The Tyler, Texas-based Christian Exodus has launched a Web site, http://www.ChristianExodus.com, and has begun encouraging visitors to sign up to participate in what the Web site says is "an association of Christians who no longer wish to live under the unjust usurpation of powers by the federal government."

==================

Oh yea, they're big Huckabee fans.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2008 03:29 AM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
01-17-2008 03:29 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:
Fanatical Wrote:How does a gay marriage harm anyone, or impede on anyone else's rights to the point that a constitutional amendment is needed?

Eventually Leftwing judges will force Christian Churches who believe Same Sex Marriage is wrong to perform Same Sex Marriages or lose the authority to perform any marriage, thereby forcing their values onto others. Forcing values onto others, isn't that the most common reason people give for not liking Christians, and we don't even have the power to impose values as laws through court rulings.

Where do you get that idea from? Is there a precedent for that? I'm most familiar with weddings at Catholic churches, and the priest won't even marry a couple if both aren't Catholic.
01-17-2008 04:33 AM
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Bourgeois_Rage Away
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Post: #18
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
GGniner Wrote:Just like many of the 10 commandments are in our laws and Constitution...........Now if he wants to admend the Constitution to outlaw Adultery, then there's something there. But I think he's talking about the 2 hot button Social Con. issues, Abortion and Gay Marriage, whether or not they are federal issues is another debate.

You're kidding right? Many of the 10 commandments are law? I can count 2 and maybe 3 if you stretch it a bit.

Murder is illegal, theft is illegal. But these are not unique among early law systems.

The one you have to stretch is "bearing false witness". The only law about that is purgery in a court of law. Otherwise it is not illegal to lie in the United States. I challenge you to show me what other commandments are law.

blah Wrote:For a guy who is usually pretty level-headed on all issues, you seemed to have really spun this one statement about one item into an all encompassing march towards a "Theocracy". I have to say that I am a little disappointed.
Sorry to disappoint, blah. This is something I feel strongly about. Yes, I used the term theocracy, and I admit freely that it is hyperbole. But I do think it is very dominionist.

GGniner seems to want to say that mandating some morality is ok, while others it is not. For instance, he thinks that it is alright to outlaw gay marriage, but outlawing adultery would be taking it a bit too far. On the other hand, I do not fear that my marriage will be threatened in the least if a homosexual couple decides to commit their lives to one another. I don't like the fact that the government has any say at all about marriage, which is a joining of two people (which include their physical being and if it exists their spiritual being). If X religion (and there are Christian sects that advocate for it) says that homosexual marriages are fine by them, then I think it is wrong for the government to take steps against that religious view.

Implementing these morals is a small step towards a de facto theocracy. I do not need someone else's morals implemented into law.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2008 08:30 AM by Bourgeois_Rage.)
01-17-2008 08:21 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:
GGniner Wrote:Just like many of the 10 commandments are in our laws and Constitution...........Now if he wants to admend the Constitution to outlaw Adultery, then there's something there. But I think he's talking about the 2 hot button Social Con. issues, Abortion and Gay Marriage, whether or not they are federal issues is another debate.

You're kidding right? Many of the 10 commandments are law? I can count 2 and maybe 3 if you stretch it a bit.

Murder is illegal, theft is illegal. But these are not unique among early law systems.

The one you have to stretch is "bearing false witness". The only law about that is purgery in a court of law. Otherwise it is not illegal to lie in the United States. I challenge you to show me what other commandments are law.

blah Wrote:For a guy who is usually pretty level-headed on all issues, you seemed to have really spun this one statement about one item into an all encompassing march towards a "Theocracy". I have to say that I am a little disappointed.
Sorry to disappoint, blah. This is something I feel strongly about. Yes, I used the term theocracy, and I admit freely that it is hyperbole. But I do think it is very dominionist.

GGniner seems to want to say that mandating some morality is ok, while others it is not. For instance, he thinks that it is alright to outlaw gay marriage, but outlawing adultery would be taking it a bit too far. On the other hand, I do not fear that my marriage will be threatened in the least if a homosexual couple decides to commit their lives to one another. I don't like the fact that the government has any say at all about marriage, which is a joining of two people (which include their physical being and if it exists their spiritual being). If X religion (and there are Christian sects that advocate for it) says that homosexual marriages are fine by them, then I think it is wrong for the government to take steps against that religious view.

Implementing these morals is a small step towards a de facto theocracy. I do not need someone else's morals implemented into law.

Not necessarily....I am against gay marriage because...

Marriage = 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

Gay couples can't get "married" using that definition. I am fine if they want a civil union, but don't call it marriage.

Civil Union = A legal union of a same-sex couple, sanctioned by a civil authority.

Union = the act of uniting two or more things.

There are a lot of atheists that agree with the above. It doesn't have to be a religious item.

The same could be said for abortion. Whether you are religious or not, if you believe life begins at conception, you could view abortion as murder regardless of your religious beliefs.

That's just my $0.02....

On the flip side, I don't hear any U.S. citizens (there are obviously a lot of Muslim states) clamoring for a national religion or disbanding the government in return for a theocracy. I really feel you are using the slippery slope fallacy of reasoning to make the jump from law on gay marriage or abortion to a religious state.
01-17-2008 09:52 AM
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RE: Huckabee on Theocracy
So a solution to your problem would be to remove marriage from all law, correct Blah? Nobody gets married by the government, instead you get a civil union license. You then can have a ceremony in a church if you would like, but it isn't anything that is binding by law. Only a civil union would grant you the rights that we currently get by marriage.
01-17-2008 10:19 AM
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