Interesting that the MWC"s higher rated champion (TCU-- only one loss) had to accept the Houston Bowl with its $1.2 million payout. While the "left behind" WAC conference's champion (Fresno-- two losses) gets the Liberty Bowl with its $1.5 million payout. Tell me again why the MWC is better than the WAC? I think I must be a slow learner.

SpartaRick Wrote:Interesting that the  MWC"s higher rated champion (TCU-- only one loss) had to accept the Houston Bowl with its $1.2 million payout.  While the "left behind" WAC conference's champion (Fresno-- two  losses) gets the Liberty Bowl with its $1.5 million payout.   Tell me again why the MWC is better than the WAC?  I think I must be a slow learner.

What will be very interesting, is to see which conference gets more Bowl payouts and NCAA Tournament bid payouts combined. As soon as March ends, I'll have the figures calculated and ready to be held against those that haven't taught me where the WAC is so much lesser than the MWC.

I'll bet that the WAC gets more money from those two items. I'm a slow learner also. Many Fresno St fans are very quick learners, including NoDogDown, ModestoBulldog, OldfartBBJ errr BulldogBBJ or whatever the hell his name is, etc.

FWIW, I recently read that the WAC's policy on bowl games is that the team gets $300K + airfare for expenses before money is divided. The WAC website says Fresno will get ~$600K + expenses for their Liberty Bowl appearance. That would be very close to 50% after expenses. If the rest is divided equally, the remaining schools would get ~$75K each ($600K/8). If the same logic is applied to the other bowl games, teams playing in minimum-payout bowls get ~$200K + expenses, and the rest get ~$25K/game.

So let's say all four teams get in bowls, with three being minimum payouts, estimated revenues per school would be:

Fresno: $675K
Boise*, Nevada, LaTech: $325K
everyone else: $150K
*I'm assuming Boise also gets the $300K travel expenses, even though they aren't travelling.

DISCLAIMER: I have no reason to believe this is anywhere close to reality. :)

clpack Wrote:FWIW, I recently read that the WAC's policy on bowl games is that the team gets $300K + airfare for expenses before money is divided. The WAC website says Fresno will get ~$600K + expenses for their Liberty Bowl appearance. That would be very close to 50% after expenses. If the rest is divided equally, the remaining schools would get ~$75K each ($600K/8). If the same logic is applied to the other bowl games, teams playing in minimum-payout bowls get ~$200K + expenses, and the rest get ~$25K/game.

So let's say all four teams get in bowls, with three being minimum payouts, estimated revenues per school would be:

Fresno: $675K
Boise*, Nevada, LaTech: $325K
everyone else: $150K
*I'm assuming Boise also gets the $300K travel expenses, even though they aren't travelling.

DISCLAIMER: I have no reason to believe this is anywhere close to reality.   :)

All right, let's make some assumptions. I've posted links on Yoda's WAC board to articles that specifically talk about these issues. <a href='http://www.westsports.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=146&st=20#' target='_blank'>Link to Articles</a>

Let's not break the numbers down any further than they are given to us up front to keep things simple.

WAC:
-Fresno St brings in $1.5mil from the Liberty Bowl.
-Nevada brings in $500k from whatever bowl (MPC or Sheraton) they go to plus $1200k from winning 1 NCAA tournament game and being invited to the dance. That's a total of $1.7mil brought in in Nevada's name.
-Boise St brings in $500k from their bowl game. (MPC or Sheraton)
-Utah St brings in $600k from being invited to the dance.
-Add in another $500k if La Tech gets a bowl invite. (GMAC?)
That's a total of $4.8mil.
MWC:
-TCU brings in $1.2mil from Houston Bowl.
-BYU brings in $500k from Las Vegas Bowl.
-Utah brings in $500k from Emerald Bowl?
-Col St brings in ??? from ??? bowl?
-UNLV brings in $600k from an NCAA Tournament invite and gets beat in the first round.
That's a total of $2.8mil without adding in Col St's Bowl money. Colorado St would have to get into a bowl game on the caliber of TCU's bowl and UNLV would have to make it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament to make it close to $4.8mil. I would be shocked if the MWC got 2 teams in the dance this year.

Again, we'll be able to add all of the numbers come the end of March.

It's interesting to note that if Nevada makes it to the second round of the dance or deeper, they'll bring more money to their conference than any MWC or WAC team.

ejmpalle Wrote:

clpack Wrote:FWIW, I recently read that the WAC's policy on bowl games is that the team gets $300K + airfare for expenses before money is divided. The WAC website says Fresno will get ~$600K + expenses for their Liberty Bowl appearance. That would be very close to 50% after expenses. If the rest is divided equally, the remaining schools would get ~$75K each ($600K/8). If the same logic is applied to the other bowl games, teams playing in minimum-payout bowls get ~$200K + expenses, and the rest get ~$25K/game.

So let's say all four teams get in bowls, with three being minimum payouts, estimated revenues per school would be:

Fresno: $675K
Boise*, Nevada, LaTech: $325K
everyone else: $150K
*I'm assuming Boise also gets the $300K travel expenses, even though they aren't travelling.

DISCLAIMER: I have no reason to believe this is anywhere close to reality.&nbsp; :)

All right, let's make some assumptions. I've posted links on Yoda's WAC board to articles that specifically talk about these issues. <a href='http://www.westsports.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=146&st=20#' target='_blank'>Link to Articles</a>

Let's not break the numbers down any further than they are given to us up front to keep things simple.

WAC:
-Fresno St brings in $1.5mil from the Liberty Bowl.
-Nevada brings in $500k from whatever bowl (MPC or Sheraton) they go to plus $1200k from winning 1 NCAA tournament game and being invited to the dance. That's a total of $1.7mil brought in in Nevada's name.
-Boise St brings in $500k from their bowl game. (MPC or Sheraton)
-Utah St brings in $600k from being invited to the dance.
-Add in another $500k if La Tech gets a bowl invite. (GMAC?)
That's a total of $4.8mil.
MWC:
-TCU brings in $1.2mil from Houston Bowl.
-BYU brings in $500k from Las Vegas Bowl.
-Utah brings in $500k from Emerald Bowl?
-Col St brings in ??? from ??? bowl?
-UNLV brings in $600k from an NCAA Tournament invite and gets beat in the first round.
That's a total of $2.8mil without adding in Col St's Bowl money. Colorado St would have to get into a bowl game on the caliber of TCU's bowl and UNLV would have to make it to the second round of the NCAA Tournament to make it close to $4.8mil. I would be shocked if the MWC got 2 teams in the dance this year.

Again, we'll be able to add all of the numbers come the end of March.

It's interesting to note that if Nevada makes it to the second round of the dance or deeper, they'll bring more money to their conference than any MWC or WAC team.

Random comments:

1) Minimum bowl payouts are $750K.
2) Are you subtracting expenses to arrive at $500K? If so, you should subtract more (say $350K, for a net of $400K). And you should subtract expenses for the Liberty and Houston Bowls as well.
3) CSU will play in the Poinsettia Bowl, which I think is a $750K payout.
4) New Mexico will probably be in the Ft. Worth Bowl (also $750K)

clpack Wrote:Random comments:

1) Minimum bowl payouts are $750K.
2) Are you subtracting expenses to arrive at $500K? If so, you should subtract more (say $350K, for a net of $400K). And you should subtract expenses for the Liberty and Houston Bowls as well.
3) CSU will play in the Poinsettia Bowl, which I think is a $750K payout.
4) New Mexico will probably be in the Ft. Worth Bowl (also $750K)

All right let's run the numbers again:

WAC:
-Fresno St brings in $1.5mil from the Liberty Bowl.
-Nevada brings in $750k from whatever bowl (MPC or Sheraton) they go to plus $1200k from winning 1 NCAA tournament game and being invited to the dance. That's a total of $1.95mil brought in in Nevada's name.
-Boise St brings in $750k from their bowl game. (MPC or Sheraton)
-Utah St or Hawaii, whichever way you want to look at it, brings in $600k from being invited to the dance. In any case, the WAC will get 2 teams in the dance and the MWC will get the winner of the MWC tournament in Vegas which will likely be UNLV.
-Add in another $750k if La Tech gets a bowl invite. (GMAC?)
That's a total of $5.5mil.
MWC:
-TCU brings in $1.2mil from Houston Bowl.
-BYU brings in $750k from Las Vegas Bowl.
-Utah brings in $750k from Emerald Bowl?
-Col St brings in $750k from Poinsettia Bowl?
-New Mexico brings in $750k from Ft Worth Bowl?
-UNLV brings in $600k from an NCAA Tournament invite and gets beat in the first round.
That's a total of $4.8mil.

The WAC still wins and Nevada pulls in more than anyone with $1.95mil. I'm making assumptions about basketball here, which aren't verified yet, but I think are quite likely.

Your numbers are best case scenario for the WAC and worst case for the MWC. But not likely. At the very least the WAC might make as much as the MWC but most likely slightly less.
MWC will have 5 bowls this year and the WAC 4, if lucky. Both the MWC and WAC will probably get 2 teams in the NCAA's. We'll see if any of those teams get past the first round. That is reality.

Oh, and how did 2004 go?

MWC - Utah brought in 14 mil for Fiesta and 2.3? mil for getting to the sweet 16 in basketball...
I think that alone about quadrupaled the entire WAC conference, add in the other 3 bowls and other NCAA appearance.... and well its not even close.

The "other" 3 bowls from last year?

If I'm not mistaken, the MWC only had 3 teams go to Bowl games last year (Utah, Wyoming, NM).

<a href='http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1790325' target='_blank'>http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1790325</a>

Urban was an excellent coach for Utah. Florida hired the right guy. Still can't believe they lost to South Carolina.

Quote:Your numbers are best case scenario for the WAC and worst case for the MWC.  But not likely.

Please elaborate on this point namssa. How is the WAC getting 4 bowl teams and 2 NCAA teams not likely? How is Nevada making it to the NCAA tournament and winning their first game not likely? Nevada, if you were watching, beat Texas last year in the first round. Why isn't that scenario likely this year after they're ranked in the top 25? You're not making any sense here, namssa. namssa must be one of those quick learners.

Quote: At the very least the WAC might make as much as the MWC but most likely slightly less.

No, not when you look at the numbers I've calculated.

Quote:MWC will have 5 bowls this year and the WAC 4, if lucky.  Both the MWC and WAC will probably get 2 teams in the NCAA's.  We'll see if any of those teams get past the first round.  That is reality.

:snore:

This is where you're WAY, WAY off, namssa. The WAC has 3 teams getting votes in the polls. The pollsters can't decide which MWC team to vote for, if any. The winner of the MWC tournament makes it to the dance and that is it. One and done conference this year, namssa. :rolleyes:

Quote:Oh, and how did 2004 go?

I hadn't mentioned that, because the current members of the WAC weren't in the WAC at that point in time, like Utah St, NMSU and Idaho.

Quote:MWC - Utah brought in 14 mil for Fiesta and 2.3? mil for getting to the sweet 16 in basketball...
I think that alone about quadrupaled the entire WAC conference, add in the other 3 bowls and other NCAA appearance.... and well its not even close.

Right, but that was then and this is now. Typical MWC fan that lives in the past. As I said, we aren't talking about the same teams and making the same comparisons when talking about last year. Go back to the MWC board with your MWC buddies over there.

namssa Wrote:Your numbers are best case scenario for the WAC and worst case for the MWC. But not likely. At the very least the WAC might make as much as the MWC but most likely slightly less.
MWC will have 5 bowls this year and the WAC 4, if lucky. Both the MWC and WAC will probably get 2 teams in the NCAA's. We'll see if any of those teams get past the first round. That is reality.

Oh, and how did 2004 go?

MWC - Utah brought in 14 mil for Fiesta and 2.3? mil for getting to the sweet 16 in basketball...
I think that alone about quadrupaled the entire WAC conference, add in the other 3 bowls and other NCAA appearance.... and well its not even close.

Yes, in 2004 you all road the coattails of Utah and that took a once in a lifetime alignment with the stars regarding scheduling and a marquee player or two. With claims of 'balance' you were a one trick pony for both marquee sports. How's Utah this year?

You had to add TCU to have anyone at all this year. How sad you all would look if you didn't add them.

Reality is there's more 'balance' in the WAC where it counts: at the top, in both sports.

Sorry to bring a little truth to your board.

The MWC will be in the Houston, Las Vegas, Emerald, Poinsetta and Fort Worth Bowls. That is 4.2 million. The WAC will likely only get the Liberty, MPC Computers, and Hawaii (I don't know where you think LTech will end up). That is 3 million.

As far as basketball. The MWC has NEVER had less that 2 teams and half of the time had 3 teams in the tournament. I don't expect any less this year. I also expect the WAC to have 2 as well. So likley it will be a wash as far as basketball is concerend. You never know who will win a game in the tournament. Nevada is a damn good team and could win a game or two, but I wouldn't predict it as fact. Plus look at the starts of both the WAC and MWC so far this year. The MWC has started 17-4 and is currently the 4th ranked conference in RPI. The WAC is 7-9 and ranked 12th. Sure early, but it does say something.

namssa Wrote:Sorry to bring a little truth to your board.

MWC truth. I would never have guessed it.

namssa Wrote:Sorry to bring a little truth to your board.

The MWC will be in the Houston, Las Vegas, Emerald, Poinsetta and Fort Worth Bowls.&nbsp; That is 4.2 million.&nbsp; The WAC will likely only get the Liberty, MPC Computers, and Hawaii (I don't know where you think LTech will end up).&nbsp; That is 3 million.

As far as basketball.&nbsp; The MWC has NEVER had less that 2 teams and half of the time had 3 teams in the tournament.&nbsp; I don't expect any less this year.&nbsp; I also expect the WAC to have 2 as well.&nbsp; So likley it will be a wash as far as basketball is concerend.&nbsp; You never know who will win a game in the tournament.&nbsp; Nevada is a damn good team and could win a game or two, but I wouldn't predict it as fact.&nbsp; Plus look at the starts of both the WAC and MWC so far this year.&nbsp; The MWC has started 17-4 and is currently the 4th ranked conference in RPI.&nbsp; The WAC is 7-9 and ranked 12th.&nbsp; Sure early, but it does say something.

As far as I'm concerned the NCAA should institute a hard and fast rule that a football team must have a minimum of seven wins in order to be bowl eligible. There is no football team that deserves to go "bowling" with a 6-5 record IMHO. It is unseemly at best, i.e., you BARELY finish above .500 and you get to go to a bowl game? It is simply ridiculous IMHO.

If that were the case the Mountain West Conference would have only ONE bowl eligible team this season as they are truly the conference of mediocrity when it comes to football. :laugh:

As to where La Tech may end up, CBS sportsline is projected La Tech as BYU's opponent in the Las Vegas Bowl.

Don't forget the 12 game rule goes into effect next season. The NCAA definitely needs to make a rule that teams need 7 wins to go to bowls. It will be a serious travesty if 6-6 BCS also rans make it into bowls while 9-3 or 8-4 or even 7-5 teams from other leagues are forced to sit at home.

Quote:As far as basketball. The MWC has NEVER had less that 2 teams and half of the time had 3 teams in the tournament. I don't expect any less this year. I also expect the WAC to have 2 as well. So likley it will be a wash as far as basketball is concerend. You never know who will win a game in the tournament.

Until last year, you've also never had a team make it past the 2nd round. Traditionally, the MWC has had more teams, but WAC teams make it a bit further.

As for the bowls, we're really arguing semantics here. Neither conference is going to make a lot of money in the bowl season after all the travel expenses are figured upon. The MWC gave up the Liberty Bowl because they weren't making $$$ on it. (Though the WAC is likely to have a better deal than the MWC because we didn't sign a pre-season deal) In the past, one of the big bowl money winners for the WAC has actually been the Hawaii Bowl--just because the conference had hardly any travel expenses to reimburse Hawaii for. This year, we'll clean up on the MPC Bowl since Boise is playing there. Also, Bowls can pay out higher than their minimum payout if attendance is good...

Next year will be the year where we care about the MWC/MAC/CUSA because the highest non-BCS team gets the BCS bowl. If it were this year, could you imagine the huuuuge TCU vs. Fresno State arguments we'd be having on the boards this year?
(My guess is that the nation would also be arguing about it seeing how close Fresno/TCU are in the polls)

namssa Wrote:As far as basketball.  The MWC has NEVER had less that 2 teams and half of the time had 3 teams in the tournament.  I don't expect any less this year.  I also expect the WAC to have 2 as well.

Research your claims before you spout them off. In 2000-2001 only BYU went to the NCAA tournament. If you want to look at past performances I will be glad to show the numbers. Look in this link.

<a href='http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/mwc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/m-bball-record-book' target='_blank'>http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_cho...all-record-book</a><a href='http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/mwc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/m-bball-record-book' target='_blank'>http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_cho...all-record-book</a>

By my count that is a year where only one team went to the NCAA tournament. So never is the wrong word to use because in this case it is completely false. The second point is this. Since the split the WAC has gone 9-11 in the NCAA tournament, while the MWC has gone 5-14. In the NIT the WAC has gone 22-21 while the MWC has gone 15-27. This includes Tulsa's elite 8 appearance, but does not include USU's win against the Big 10 champ or other appearances in the NCAA or NIT by USU and NMSU. The WAC has played in 20 NCAA tournament games and 43 NIT games while the MWC has played in 19 NCAA tournament games and 42 NIT games. The WAC also may have money left from the NC game appearance Utah made in 1998. In any case the WAC has done more in the postseason and made more money from it since the split. They may have had lower Sagarin ratings due to a few bad teams, but they have also done more in the postseason. It's all right here.

<a href='http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Apr/12/sp/sp45pferd.html' target='_blank'>http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/.../sp45pferd.html</a>

SpartaRick Wrote:Interesting that the MWC"s higher rated champion (TCU-- only one loss) had to accept the Houston Bowl with its $1.2 million payout. While the "left behind" WAC conference's champion (Fresno-- two losses) gets the Liberty Bowl with its $1.5 million payout. Tell me again why the MWC is better than the WAC? I think I must be a slow learner.

Uh, we made it clear to the Liberty we were more interested in the Houston (and visa versa) several weeks ago, for multiple reasons, despite the slight differences in payouts. First, because we will have no trouble selling our allotment to the Houston Bowl, that will by itself make up the difference in payouts. About 3/4 of our alums are within driving distance of the Houston Bowl, and we expect over 20K fans (we would be lucky to get half that in Memphis). Second, we were more interested in a matchup with a team from an autobid conference, especially from the Big XII, a conference we like to compare ourselves to and cannot pass up opportunities to prove ourselves against them. Third, it is a great recruiting tool- we will have several recruits there from the Houston area and it is better exposure. In the end I can't say for sure if we had really wanted the Liberty if they would have selected us over Fresno, but there is no doubt that we didn't even make that choice an option for the Liberty.

BlueManBronco Wrote:

namssa Wrote:&nbsp;

As far as I'm concerned the NCAA should institute a hard and fast rule that a football team must have a minimum of seven wins in order to be bowl eligible. There is no football team that deserves to go "bowling" with a 6-5 record IMHO. It is unseemly at best, i.e., you BARELY finish above .500 and you get to go to a bowl game? It is simply ridiculous IMHO.

Just look at all the Bowl "Openings" now because BCS Teams don't have enough qualified teams.

Do you think the BCS Conferences want to make it TOUGHER to earn Bowl Bids?

NO!!

That's why the BCS Conferences DUPED the non-BCS Conferences into approving the new Div I-AA win rule that will allow EVERY team to count a Div I-AA win EVERY YEAR instead of just once every 4 years for Bowl Eligibility.

Now with the 12 game (most BCS scheduled an extra "easy" non-conf home game), future openings for non-BCS Teams to "join the party" (aka BCS Conf Open Bowl Slot) will probably be slim and NONE!

Heck, some BCS Conferences will vote this winter to keep the need for ONLY 6 wins (even in our new 12 game schedules) to stay Bowl eligible!!!

Non-BCS Presidents/AD's got DUPED into the voting changes this past Spring.

While many non-BCS Schools will enjoy some of the open spots in the Bowl picture this year...those possibilites will slowly fade away...and the BCS Schools can now schedule 3-4 non-conf Home Games every year...and only need to win 2-3 Conf Games to become Bowl Eligible.

BCS is rich because they aren't stupid.

KL

namssa Wrote:Sorry to bring a little truth to your board.

The MWC will be in the Houston, Las Vegas, Emerald, Poinsetta and Fort Worth Bowls. That is 4.2 million. The WAC will likely only get the Liberty, MPC Computers, and Hawaii (I don't know where you think LTech will end up). That is 3 million.

Sorry to bring a little truth back to the board (well not really) but the MWC will be in 4 bowls this year, not 5. :wave: Iowa State lost to Kansas in OT so throw New Mexico the Ft. Worth Bowl out (and the $750,000.)

We'll have to see what happens with the WAC, but I still think that there will be 4 bowls. May not be as bad for the WAC or good for the MWC as you seem to think.