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One Miami fan's perspective on their move
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SoCalPanther Offline
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Post: #1
One Miami fan's perspective on their move
I realize we are in full swing of the FB season but this was posted by a Miami fan (subsequently posted on the Pitt rivals board). Again, this is just ONE Miami fan's opinion and does NOT necessarily reflect the fanbase or admins....

This post is from NDCane2, a poster on the Miami board.

As far as conference prestige goes, the NBE, ironically, has actually proven to be a far more credible football confrence than the new ACC. In 2005, the BE champ beat the SEC champ in the Sugar Bowl. Last year, they had 3 NC contenders deep into the season and boasted a perfect bowl record, including a whipping by their conference champ over the ACC's champ in the Orange Bowl. This year the BE once again has 3 NC contenders while the ACC's only supposed contender was exposed as a pretender by LSU, in humiliating fashion, two weeks into the season. And the BE is home to FOUR potential Heisman finalists. Consider also that the BE has up-and-coming programs in USF and Cincy and that pretty much all of its teams play exciting offensive football, and it becomes impossible to deny that our move to the ACC, land of boring 13-10 games and mediocre 6-6 records, was anything other than a move to an inferior football conference.

In regard to on-field impact, the move has had the primary effect of substantially handicapping us for both the national and conference championship chases. The most obvious handicap is the contrived ACC CG, but beyond that, the scheduling automatically puts us in a hole vis-a-vis FSU and VT because we play each of them every year, whereas they only play each other intermittently. This was the situation back when we were in the BE, but it made no difference then because the FSU game was non-conference and didn't impact our chances of getting the automatic BCS bid.

On top of the handicap of playing FSU and VT every year, every other year we have to play them both on the road. How or why Dee agreed to that scheduling, I'll never know, but the cummulative on-field impact of the move to the ACC is that our annual national championship chances have probably been cut in half and that the most likely participants in any given ACC CG will be FSU and VT.

Finally, there is the style of play of the teams in the ACC, which can only be described as boring and ugly. When you play 8 games against that type of competition every year, it tends to rub off, even if only subconsciously. That seems to have already happened with our program.

As to the fiscal impact, our athletic department was losing money back in the BE and it was thought (hoped?) that this move to the ACC would result in a windfall because of extra revenue from the ACC CG and lower travel costs for the non-revenue sports. It hasn't worked out that way.

We've lost millions of dollars from paying the BE exit fee, the ACC entrance fee, and eating Coker's contract; the travel expenses for non-revenue teams have actually increased; and the athletic department is still hemorrhaging money. On top of that, we're making less money from baseball because we had to give up our independent affiliation: we had to give up our television contract with FSN, since the ACC owns the broadcast rights, and we have fewer home dates (i.e. less gate revenue) because the ACC requires its teams to play at least 20 road games (whereas we used to play at most 10). The great financial advantages of ACC affiliation that were hoped for and promised have simply failed to materialize.

Lastly, ACC affiliation has resulted in a decrease in exposure for the football program. The Northeast, aside from being the nation's media capital, is also home to the second largest group of UM alums and students. Back in the BE days, our entire conference schedule, with the exception of VT and West Virginia, consisted of teams from that geographic area (Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, Temple), and UM games were almost always televised into that market. If ABC or ESPN Plus had regional games on a Saturday, the BE game would always be shown because the NY, NJ, CT, Mass, PA, etc. markets were BE "home" markets, and invariably the BE team involved in those games would be Miami (the largest TV draw). The ACC has no "home" teams in the NY, NJ, CT, or PA markets, so those markets get either Big Ten or Big East regionally televised games. Our Northeast alums and students are getting about 4 or 5 less televised games per year than when we were in the BE, in addition to losing the ability to attend annual road games in the region.

Then, of course, there is the stupidity of the ACC in putting UM and BC in different divisions. The net effect of that move was to eliminate an annual rival for UM and to further decrease our exposure in the northeast, while simultaneously giving FSU exposure in the northeast (when it previously had none) and a brand new rival with which to gain a foothold in the region.


In sum, the effects of the move to the ACC have been singularly disastrous.

We're now affiliated with a conference of boring and offensively-inept football teams that is inferior to our old conference.

We have substantially decreased our ability to win national and conference championships, and put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage vis-a-vis our two conference rivals, FSU and VT.

The quality of our program has decayed to its lowest point since probation.

The athletic department is still way in the red.

We've suffered a significant decrease in national exposure.

We lost our annual series with BC.

The baseball team is generating less revenue than it had been as an independent and has suffered a noticeable decline on the diamond.

And the basketball team still stinks.

I can't think of one good thing the move to the ACC has wrought.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 04:48 AM by SoCalPanther.)
09-14-2007 04:45 AM
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frogman Offline
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Post: #2
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
Thanks Hoquista.
That's an interesting read. Now USF is getting all the northeastern, southern and national positive exposure UM should be getting. Too bad for UM.05-nono

I think one thing he left out though is that the ACC is in the footprint of the nations top FB conference the SEC. The BE is the top conference in its northeast footprint but the ACC is number two in the south. The gap has widened since the raid and expanded to basketball as the SEC has taken the past two BB titles and LSu knocked out a hot JJ Reddick and #2 ranked Duke a few years back. The ACC is a tier two league. It was (in FB) before Miami joined and it still is.

Just think, we beat the ACC champ last year but when you talk about BE big wins, people always mention WVU/UGA and now USF/Auburn. UofL over UM lasted about two weeks but that's not considered evidence of anything anymore. Fact is, we're so over the ACC and so is everyone else.

Keep a plate warm for BC. They'll be back. There's no way their fans would rather play Ga. Tech, Vir. FSu, as opposed to Syr, UCONN, and Pitt.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 05:57 AM by frogman.)
09-14-2007 05:53 AM
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mattsarz Offline
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Post: #3
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
I'd say that firing Coker is their own financial problem, independent of conference exit and entrance fees. They didn't have to fire Coker and pay for two head coaches.

There was a lot of money that Miami had to find a way to make up since they had the disproportionate share of revenues in the Big East and would be going to a conference that had more equal revenue sharing. Couple that with more teams sharing the pie, and there were concerns that Miami's share of ACC revenues would equal or be greater than their Big East shares.

I think this might be Miami's first year of full ACC revenues (either this year or last year was) where other years they were docked a share due to league bylaws.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 08:11 AM by mattsarz.)
09-14-2007 07:48 AM
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wvucrazed Offline
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Post: #4
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
I agree with his comments about the style of play in the ACC: boring.
09-14-2007 08:05 AM
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chess Offline
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Post: #5
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
mattsarz Wrote:I'd say that firing Coker is their own financial problem, independent of conference exit and entrance fees. They didn't have to fire Coker and pay for two head coaches.

I agree. Miami wasn't playing at the highest level anymore but Coker deserved another year to re-build the program.

The original writer is wrong about something... Miami has played better basketball since joining the ACC.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 08:14 AM by chess.)
09-14-2007 08:13 AM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Post: #6
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
Jeepers, talk about fickle.

- "We want more exposure! Especially in the northeast!"
Try winning your games instead of playing like pansies at OU and Louisville. Winning, big-time programs get nice TV slots no matter where they are from. Plus, last I checked several BE teams were more than interested in series with other BCS teams. I hear ND is trying to schedule down...

-"Our baseball team is losing more games and money!" Yeah, it's because you're playing a true conference schedule now instead of having 4/5 of your games at home. You know, like other real baseball powers LSU, Texas...

-"We have to play FSU and VT every year, but FSU and VT only meet every other year!" a) Waaaaaaaaahhhhh! b) Guess what, you're going to have to play 4-5 road games every year, sister, and somewhere along the way some of them are going to be tough. Like I said, try winning some games by earning them rather than begging for handouts.

- "The BE has national contenders right now and the ACC doesn't." If Miami was still in the BE a) They might not have Louisville and USF, and b) you'd still be losing to WVU, BC and Rutgers. Again, be part of the solution before complaining, because John Swofford was counting on Miami to be one of those contenders for the ACC.

- "ACC play is boring!" Yep, the ACC has been handcuffed lately by poor coaching and lousy quarterback play. I don't expect this to be permanent and you'd better hope so as well, seeing as (again) Miami is part of the problem here.

-"We're not rolling in dough!" a) You're making more than you would as the 2nd or 3rd place team in the BE right now, b) you'll be making more after you begin receiving full shares, c) try having more fans at your football and basketball games. 4,200 per game for hoops is pretty low for a BCS league, and averaging 40k for football unless you're national champ contenders, while not abysmal, isn't going to fill the coffers. College programs that have the really huge athletic budgets do so through their own earnings and not through conference payouts.

I do agree Miami and BC should be annual rivals, but other than that it makes no sense to cry foul over a house you designed and built yourself.

*rant over*
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 08:47 AM by GunnerFan.)
09-14-2007 08:45 AM
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MichaelSavage Offline
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Post: #7
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
How much money was on the table when Tranghese made his last ditch offer for Miami to stay in June 2003? I thought it was a significant amount.
09-14-2007 08:49 AM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #8
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
Hoquista Wrote:We've lost millions of dollars from paying the BE exit fee, the ACC entrance fee, and eating Coker's contract; the travel expenses for non-revenue teams have actually increased; and the athletic department is still hemorrhaging money. On top of that, we're making less money from baseball because we had to give up our independent affiliation: we had to give up our television contract with FSN, since the ACC owns the broadcast rights, and we have fewer home dates (i.e. less gate revenue) because the ACC requires its teams to play at least 20 road games (whereas we used to play at most 10). The great financial advantages of ACC affiliation that were hoped for and promised have simply failed to materialize.

Lastly, ACC affiliation has resulted in a decrease in exposure for the football program. The Northeast, aside from being the nation's media capital, is also home to the second largest group of UM alums and students. Back in the BE days, our entire conference schedule, with the exception of VT and West Virginia, consisted of teams from that geographic area (Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, Temple), and UM games were almost always televised into that market. If ABC or ESPN Plus had regional games on a Saturday, the BE game would always be shown because the NY, NJ, CT, Mass, PA, etc. markets were BE "home" markets, and invariably the BE team involved in those games would be Miami (the largest TV draw). The ACC has no "home" teams in the NY, NJ, CT, or PA markets, so those markets get either Big Ten or Big East regionally televised games. Our Northeast alums and students are getting about 4 or 5 less televised games per year than when we were in the BE, in addition to losing the ability to attend annual road games in the region.


Does anyone else get the feeling that this person has alot more knowledge of the intricate details about Miami's finances and contract and tv deals than the average person? Sounds like someone with very close ties to the university.
09-14-2007 08:50 AM
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Bambu Offline
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Post: #9
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
cuseroc Wrote:
Hoquista Wrote:We've lost millions of dollars from paying the BE exit fee, the ACC entrance fee, and eating Coker's contract; the travel expenses for non-revenue teams have actually increased; and the athletic department is still hemorrhaging money. On top of that, we're making less money from baseball because we had to give up our independent affiliation: we had to give up our television contract with FSN, since the ACC owns the broadcast rights, and we have fewer home dates (i.e. less gate revenue) because the ACC requires its teams to play at least 20 road games (whereas we used to play at most 10). The great financial advantages of ACC affiliation that were hoped for and promised have simply failed to materialize.

Lastly, ACC affiliation has resulted in a decrease in exposure for the football program. The Northeast, aside from being the nation's media capital, is also home to the second largest group of UM alums and students. Back in the BE days, our entire conference schedule, with the exception of VT and West Virginia, consisted of teams from that geographic area (Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, Temple), and UM games were almost always televised into that market. If ABC or ESPN Plus had regional games on a Saturday, the BE game would always be shown because the NY, NJ, CT, Mass, PA, etc. markets were BE "home" markets, and invariably the BE team involved in those games would be Miami (the largest TV draw). The ACC has no "home" teams in the NY, NJ, CT, or PA markets, so those markets get either Big Ten or Big East regionally televised games. Our Northeast alums and students are getting about 4 or 5 less televised games per year than when we were in the BE, in addition to losing the ability to attend annual road games in the region.


Does anyone else get the feeling that this person has alot more knowledge of the intricate details about Miami's finances and contract and tv deals than the average person? Sounds like someone with very close ties to the university.

Yep, got that same vibe myself.
09-14-2007 09:14 AM
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SF Husky Offline
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Post: #10
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
Outside money or whatever, the biggest thing Miami lost is the Northeast exposure. That will hurt the Canes big time in the long run. Canes will have a hard time getting national attention in the South unless they are a national championship contender.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 10:44 AM by SF Husky.)
09-14-2007 10:43 AM
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Orange Eagles Offline
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Post: #11
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
The grass is always greener on the other side...

...unless you're a member of the Big East, where you have the best lawn in the neighborhood 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 11:17 AM by Orange Eagles.)
09-14-2007 11:15 AM
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chess Offline
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Post: #12
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
I will suspect that the ACC, Pac 10, SEC, and Big XII will follow the Big 10's lead to start a sports network.

I don't think it was a mistake for Miami to join the ACC. If we look back at the time, Miami was looking to stabilize their non-football programs, too. Virginia Tech was freaking out and stopped all construction until they determined what was going to happen. Boston College went back and forth. Eventually, they made the decision to join the ACC.

The mega-conference will always have some challenges.
09-14-2007 11:35 AM
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mattsarz Offline
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Post: #13
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
chess Wrote:I will suspect that the ACC, Pac 10, SEC, and Big XII will follow the Big 10's lead to start a sports network.

I think that is looking less likely for some conferences. The Big 12 flirted with the idea until re-signing with ESPN for basketball and ABC for football. When they re-upped, they earned the rights to change the ESPN Plus regional telecasts to the Big 12 TV Network broadcasts. So for the Big 12, it doesn't look likely for a 24/7 network.

The SEC definitely is looking at it. I don't think the ACC would do it because ESPN/ABC pays so much for football and gives them appearances across all platforms (ABC, ESPN Networks, ESPN360) and Raycom provides all the juice for basketball (ESPN, FSN, CBS and ABC all pay Raycom for sublicensing).

I don't think it would work for the PAC-10 either and the PAC-10 is the only BCS league that I can think of that gives schools full rights to any non-nationally televised game, football and basketball. In other words, the school can sell the rights to the game to a regional network or local station and can be televised as long as it doesn't air in an exclusive telecast window. FSN has been very favorable to the PAC-10.
09-14-2007 11:57 AM
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Post: #14
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
frogman Wrote:Thanks Hoquista.
That's an interesting read. Now USF is getting all the northeastern, southern and national positive exposure UM should be getting. Too bad for UM.05-nono

I think one thing he left out though is that the ACC is in the footprint of the nations top FB conference the SEC. The BE is the top conference in its northeast footprint but the ACC is number two in the south. The gap has widened since the raid and expanded to basketball as the SEC has taken the past two BB titles and LSu knocked out a hot JJ Reddick and #2 ranked Duke a few years back. The ACC is a tier two league. It was (in FB) before Miami joined and it still is.

Keep a plate warm for BC. They'll be back. There's no way their fans would rather play Ga. Tech, Vir. FSu, as opposed to Syr, UCONN, and Pitt.

The ACC sharing a footprint with the SEC doesn't mean anything...FSU, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Florida, South Carolina, Clemson, they're all similar programs...there's really not much disparity there...

And you really think Boston College fans would get excited about Syracuse, UConn, and Pitt right now? Maybe for basketball...not a chance for football

most of your post is just delusional rambling
09-14-2007 12:31 PM
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EvilVodkaX Offline
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Post: #15
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
GunnerFan Wrote:Jeepers, talk about fickle.

- "We want more exposure! Especially in the northeast!"
Try winning your games instead of playing like pansies at OU and Louisville. Winning, big-time programs get nice TV slots no matter where they are from. Plus, last I checked several BE teams were more than interested in series with other BCS teams. I hear ND is trying to schedule down...

-"Our baseball team is losing more games and money!" Yeah, it's because you're playing a true conference schedule now instead of having 4/5 of your games at home. You know, like other real baseball powers LSU, Texas...

-"We have to play FSU and VT every year, but FSU and VT only meet every other year!" a) Waaaaaaaaahhhhh! b) Guess what, you're going to have to play 4-5 road games every year, sister, and somewhere along the way some of them are going to be tough. Like I said, try winning some games by earning them rather than begging for handouts.

- "The BE has national contenders right now and the ACC doesn't." If Miami was still in the BE a) They might not have Louisville and USF, and b) you'd still be losing to WVU, BC and Rutgers. Again, be part of the solution before complaining, because John Swofford was counting on Miami to be one of those contenders for the ACC.

- "ACC play is boring!" Yep, the ACC has been handcuffed lately by poor coaching and lousy quarterback play. I don't expect this to be permanent and you'd better hope so as well, seeing as (again) Miami is part of the problem here.

-"We're not rolling in dough!" a) You're making more than you would as the 2nd or 3rd place team in the BE right now, b) you'll be making more after you begin receiving full shares, c) try having more fans at your football and basketball games. 4,200 per game for hoops is pretty low for a BCS league, and averaging 40k for football unless you're national champ contenders, while not abysmal, isn't going to fill the coffers. College programs that have the really huge athletic budgets do so through their own earnings and not through conference payouts.

I do agree Miami and BC should be annual rivals, but other than that it makes no sense to cry foul over a house you designed and built yourself.

*rant over*

Agreed...exposure for Miami is extremely easy to get...all you have to do is win

I guess Miami really misses beating up on teams like Temple

The best point is the loss of the permanant annual BC-Miami game...this is obviously due to the divisional set-up, which is kind of screwy IMO...

Why not just create North-South divisions? Miami's permanent rival could be BC

North
Boston College
Maryland
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Wake Forest
North Carolina St.


South
FSU
Miami
Georgia Tech
Clemson
North Carolina
Duke


Swofford was really banking too much on FSU-Miami rematches for the championship game IMO
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2007 12:56 PM by EvilVodkaX.)
09-14-2007 12:37 PM
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Post: #16
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
EvilVodkaX Wrote:
frogman Wrote:Thanks Hoquista.
That's an interesting read. Now USF is getting all the northeastern, southern and national positive exposure UM should be getting. Too bad for UM.05-nono

I think one thing he left out though is that the ACC is in the footprint of the nations top FB conference the SEC. The BE is the top conference in its northeast footprint but the ACC is number two in the south. The gap has widened since the raid and expanded to basketball as the SEC has taken the past two BB titles and LSu knocked out a hot JJ Reddick and #2 ranked Duke a few years back. The ACC is a tier two league. It was (in FB) before Miami joined and it still is.

Keep a plate warm for BC. They'll be back. There's no way their fans would rather play Ga. Tech, Vir. FSu, as opposed to Syr, UCONN, and Pitt.

The ACC sharing a footprint with the SEC doesn't mean anything...FSU, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Florida, South Carolina, Clemson, they're all similar programs...there's really not much disparity there...

And you really think Boston College fans would get excited about Syracuse, UConn, and Pitt right now? Maybe for basketball...not a chance for football

most of your post is just delusional rambling

As opposed to Wake Forest, UNC, NC State, Duke etc..., Yes without a doubt. Something about playing a rival. No matter how down they may be, it still gets fans excited to try and beat them. One thing about BC, they almost always manage to lose to SU, even when they are clearly a much better team.
09-14-2007 12:51 PM
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Orange Eagles Offline
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Post: #17
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
These rivalries have been around forever (minus UConn in football, of course). In fact, I'm glad that BC and 'Cuse set up a long-term yearly series with each other to continue the rivalry.

Hopefully BC comes back, eventually...I can say I actually miss them in the conference, for rivalry reasons.
09-14-2007 01:12 PM
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Post: #18
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
Orange Eagles Wrote:These rivalries have been around forever (minus UConn in football, of course). In fact, I'm glad that BC and 'Cuse set up a long-term yearly series with each other to continue the rivalry.

Hopefully BC comes back, eventually...I can say I actually miss them in the conference, for rivalry reasons.

There's was one of the better conference roadtrips.
09-14-2007 01:21 PM
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Post: #19
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
cuseroc Wrote:
EvilVodkaX Wrote:
frogman Wrote:Thanks Hoquista.
That's an interesting read. Now USF is getting all the northeastern, southern and national positive exposure UM should be getting. Too bad for UM.05-nono

I think one thing he left out though is that the ACC is in the footprint of the nations top FB conference the SEC. The BE is the top conference in its northeast footprint but the ACC is number two in the south. The gap has widened since the raid and expanded to basketball as the SEC has taken the past two BB titles and LSu knocked out a hot JJ Reddick and #2 ranked Duke a few years back. The ACC is a tier two league. It was (in FB) before Miami joined and it still is.

Keep a plate warm for BC. They'll be back. There's no way their fans would rather play Ga. Tech, Vir. FSu, as opposed to Syr, UCONN, and Pitt.

The ACC sharing a footprint with the SEC doesn't mean anything...FSU, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Florida, South Carolina, Clemson, they're all similar programs...there's really not much disparity there...

And you really think Boston College fans would get excited about Syracuse, UConn, and Pitt right now? Maybe for basketball...not a chance for football

most of your post is just delusional rambling

As opposed to Wake Forest, UNC, NC State, Duke etc..., Yes without a doubt. Something about playing a rival. No matter how down they may be, it still gets fans excited to try and beat them. One thing about BC, they almost always manage to lose to SU, even when they are clearly a much better team.

BC doesn't play North Carolina or Duke this year...but they do get FSU and Miami at home, which are good games to get despite FSU and Miami being down...

But you bring up a good point...who exactly are Boston College's rivals? Have they really lost rivals going to the ACC?

As I see it, the programs that BC really has stuff in common with are Army, Navy, Notre Dame, Penn St., Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse, Maryland, Miami

BC loses an old rivalry with Syracuse, and a possible budding rivalry with Rutgers, but gains emerging rivalries with FSU and Maryland...not getting Miami every year sucks though

They lose West Virginia and Pitt, but do BC fans really care about these games? I understand WV would be a hot ticket right now, but how were they through the first 10 years of the Big East? Probably not any different than Virginia Tech or Clemson now

I don't think BC fans give a squat about playing UConn in football...

They can still schedule Army, Navy, Notre Dame, and Penn St. as OOC games

Rivalry-wise, its been a lateral walk for BC
09-14-2007 01:24 PM
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Post: #20
RE: One Miami fan's perspective on their move
frogman Wrote:The BE is the top conference in its northeast footprint but the ACC is number two in the south.

Thought I'd comment on this gem right here as well...Rutgers, Syracuse and UConn are northeast...Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Pitt? eh, not so much...South Florida? not at all...Expansion candidates UCF, Memphis, and East Carolina? nope...Temple was northeast, but you kicked them out
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