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25 Dubya Flip-Flops
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MAKO Offline
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1. Social Security Surplus

BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

2. Patient's Right to Sue

GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]

...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]

...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

3. Tobacco Buyout

BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]

4. North Korea

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]

5. Abortion

BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]

...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

6. OPEC

BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

7. Iraq Funding

BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony

BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]

...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]

9. Science

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

10. Ahmed Chalabi

BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

11. Department of Homeland Security

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

12. Weapons of Mass Destruction

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

13. Free Trade

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

14. Osama Bin Laden

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

15. The Environment

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

16. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

20. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

21. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

23. U.N. Resolution

BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

24. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict

BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]

25. Campaign Finance

BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]
07-30-2004 07:58 AM
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Bob Saccomano Offline
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Post: #2
 
I can come up with at least 50 for Kerry. What's your point?
07-30-2004 08:00 AM
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The Knight Time Offline
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Post: #3
 
MAKO is just stretching to try and justify his candidate's repeated flip flopping and inability to take a stand on an issue and do something about it.
07-30-2004 10:12 AM
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Dogger Offline
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Post: #4
 
Mako,

Thanks for the list but I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears with the valedictorians around here.
07-30-2004 11:38 AM
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Bob Saccomano Offline
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Dogger Wrote:Mako,

Thanks for the list but I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears with the valedictorians around here.
Awwww...ain't that typical. A liberal beaten, resorting to calling his opponent dumb to mask his own incompetence/insecurities.

I've said it before: you REALLY don't want to go down that road...not with some of the insipient tripe you've been posting.
07-30-2004 12:00 PM
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Dogger Offline
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How am I beaten? I just said thanks for the list but it will be ignored. You're as drunk and silly as Huggins.
07-30-2004 12:07 PM
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Bob Saccomano Offline
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Post: #7
 
Dogger Wrote:How am I beaten? I just said thanks for the list but it will be ignored. Your as drunk and silly as Huggins.
I'm generally not a spellchecker, but if you're going to question someone else's intelligence, you should probably learn how to spell "you're".
07-30-2004 12:09 PM
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Dogger Offline
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Hey thanks,

I made a mistake. I can admit it. If only our president could do the same.
07-30-2004 12:13 PM
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jjburtzel Offline
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Post: #9
 
Dogger Wrote:How am I beaten?  I just said thanks for the list but it will be ignored.  You're as drunk and silly as Huggins.
It always amazes me that folks who claim to be intelligent or educated (or in this case, sarcastically calling everyone who may debate the points of the list "valedictorians") know very little about actually making an argument or debating. I know this will seem trivial and boring, but let me point you to this to show you why Bearcat Carl made his post about your "valedictorian" comment:


Fallacies of Logic/Debate:

Attacking the Person (argumentum ad hominem)
Definition: The person presenting an argument is attacked instead of the argument itself. This takes many forms. For example, the person's character, nationality or religion may be attacked. Alternatively, it may be pointed out that a person stands to gain from a favourable outcome. Or, finally, a person may be attacked by association, or by the company he keeps. There are three major forms of Attacking the Person:
<span style='color:red'>
(1) ad hominem (abusive): instead of attacking an assertion, the argument attacks the person who made the assertion.
</span>

Now in your case, you decided to make a pre-argument attack, stating that anyone who would have the audacity to argue against or not take heed of such list was obviously not intelligent. And then followed it up with a 'drunk and silly as Huggins' retort to Bearcat Carl when he just pointed out your attempt to feel superior by calling everyone who doesn't believe the same thing you do as unintelligent.

It's one of the oldest, most useless tactics in an argument..ignore any points, call names. I wasn't valedictorian, but I did learn something when I was at school and I try to apply it to my daily life.
07-30-2004 12:31 PM
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MAKO Offline
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Post: #10
 
Despite all the blathering about how brilliant they happen to be, not one of the konservs has even attempted to defend Dubya's flip flops. Indeed, by their silence, they are admitting he has flip flopped on at least the 25 issues listed.
07-30-2004 01:45 PM
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Dogger Offline
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You got it MAKO!!!!!
07-30-2004 01:48 PM
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Dogger Offline
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You know what is extremely sad is how they have demonized thinking a subject through. They are more comfortable with a guy going with his guts, than someone who at first thinks one way weighs the issues and may decide on a different trek. I wish W would have flip flopped his tax cuts and his decison to go into Iraq for Oil.
07-30-2004 01:51 PM
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Papa Lou BSU Offline
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Quote:I wish W would have flip flopped his tax cuts and his decison to go into Iraq for Oil.

Indeed... so do, undoubtedly, the families of the more than 900 U.S. soliders who won't be coming home.
07-30-2004 01:56 PM
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bearcat65 Offline
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Papa Lou BSU Wrote:Indeed... so do, undoubtedly, the families of the more than 900 U.S. soliders who won't be coming home.
Really? How many of these families have said that their son or daughter died for nothing.
07-30-2004 03:37 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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BearcatCarl Wrote:I can come up with at least 50 for Kerry. What's your point?
The point is, this notion that Kerry is a waffler was cooked up by Karl Rove and planted in your heads through $80 million worth of television commercials and other weapons in the arsenal of the right-wing spin machine.

In other words, it isn't real. It's spin.

The same idea could be put out there for virtually any U.S. senator of either party -- and, as Mako demonstrated -- for Bush.
07-30-2004 06:07 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #16
 
bearcat65 Wrote:
Papa Lou BSU Wrote:Indeed... so do, undoubtedly, the families of the more than 900 U.S. soliders who won't be coming home.
Really? How many of these families have said that their son or daughter died for nothing.
There is a mom in Flint, Mich. now asking those very questions.

But, of course, you didn't see that movie.
07-30-2004 06:09 PM
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The Knight Time Offline
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Schadenfreude Wrote:
BearcatCarl Wrote:I can come up with at least 50 for Kerry.&nbsp; What's your point?
The point is, this notion that Kerry is a waffler was cooked up by Karl Rove and planted in your heads through $80 million worth of television commercials and other weapons in the arsenal of the right-wing spin machine.

In other words, it isn't real. It's spin.

The same idea could be put out there for virtually any U.S. senator of either party -- and, as Mako demonstrated -- for Bush.
Unfortunately for you, indisputable facts refute your claim.

John Kerry has 20 years of voting on the Senate that call his accountability into serious question.

Perhaps you can spin why Kerry voted to send our boys into combat, but voted not to fund them.

Perhaps Michael Moore can stop using dead soldiers as a way to serve his self fulfilling, childish agenda vs. our President.

Maybe Micahel Moore should interview survivors of 9/11, and parents of Marines, and ask them how they feel about John Kerry voting repeatedly to cut intelligence funding, cut funding for every vital weapons system, and then vote to send our troops into combat without vital funding necessary to help them succeed.

Kerry is a fraud.
07-30-2004 09:23 PM
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OldCoog Offline
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FLIP:
I think Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction are a threat, and that’s why I voted to hold him accountable and to make certain that we disarm him. I think we need to …" (NPR’s "All Things Considered," 3/19/03)

FLOP:
CHRIS MATTHEWS: “Do you think you belong to that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war, the way it’s been fought, along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?
07-31-2004 03:37 PM
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Bob Saccomano Offline
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Post: #19
 
Most of that list of 25 couldn't be considered true "flip-flops" anyway - quite a few of them are reaching a long, long way to be considered changing position. Just as a for instance: in one quote, Bush is saying we've found WMD; in the "flip-flop" he's quoted as saying we haven't found "stockpiles". That's not a conflicting statement, it's a clarifying one. We HAVE found WMD in Iraq, but not stockpiles. Big difference.

I'm not responding to every single point because there's no need to: there isn't any meat or credibility to the post. I don't question Kerry or Bush's legitimate right to change their minds over a 30 year period (like on abortion)...what I DO object to is when someone makes a vote to go to war, then votes against the funding for that war for political purposes.

And what of that vote? At best, he used the troops as leverage against the Bush tax cuts (as someone posted recently) - a highly untenable position.
At worst, Kerry jeapordized our troops in order to increase his electability during a rough primary campaign against an anti-war candidate. According to Andrea Mitchell, no less than Hillary Rodham Clinton BEGGED Kerry not to vote against the appropriations, but he felt he had to increase his currency with the anti-war Deaniacs.

In either case, it suggests a small minded selfishness and lack of compassion towards our military that shows his Presidential lack of worth better than anything Karl Rove could ever "invent". The man's record speaks for itself, you dimwits - I don't need a map to find the stinkhole Kerry lives in.

But you just go on thinking someone else puts thoughts in our head. It's amazing the intellectual superiority you tools think you possess. Yeah, WE'RE the ones being brainwashed, after that absolute sham of a convention, where everyone was pro-military and Kerry lifted speech quotes from Lincoln, Reagan, and yes, George W. Bush.

Unbelievable.
07-31-2004 06:36 PM
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The Knight Time Offline
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Post: #20
 
I found that hilarious also. Apparently Kerry can't come up with his own speech mottos.

I loved when he was talking about our military and said "Help is on the way".

This coming from a liberal man who has voted against almost every vital weapons system and voted against giving our troops higher pay, benefits, and additional funding.
07-31-2004 06:41 PM
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