GDawgs88 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:

GDawgs88 Wrote:I know I'm probably in the minority, but I think Sosa will be awesome for the Orioles. In Camden Yards, all he has to do is play 150 games and there's no doubt in my mind he'll hit 50 homers.

???
do you think camden is a better hitter's park than wrigley? did you not watch sosa hit in the second half of the season? he looked lost. he has been getting progressively worse for the past few seasons.

No I don't think that Camden Yards is a better hitters park than Wrigley, but it is still a great hitters park, and I think Sosa is really motivated to prove himself all over again. I've already heard he's lost some weight and is getting in better shape. I say he has a big year. Just a feeling.

where did you see this? he doesn't need to lose weight, he needs to be less crappy. the only HR's he hit in the second half last year were mistake pitches.

do you know how many players "lose weight" and don't do any different than usual?

He needs to be less crappy? He hit 35 homers in 126 games last year, and it was considered a down year. He has 574 career homers and has hit 35 or more 10 years in a row. That's crappy? Sure, dude. :rolleyes:

GDawgs88 Wrote:He needs to be less crappy? He hit 35 homers in 126 games last year, and it was considered a down year. He has 574 career homers and has hit 35 or more 10 years in a row. That's crappy? Sure, dude. :rolleyes:

i didn't say he was crappy. i said he needs to be less crappy than he was last year.

Sosa is far from crappy, but he is not a long term solution in Baltimore. The reason I don't like this trade for them is because they are losing an opportunity to play Jay Gibbons in right, who is something like 28 or 29 years old. The Orioles aren't gong anywhere anyway in the next few years, why not develop your younger players instead of going after a guy who, while is still good, quickly going downhill. Sammy is not going to project the Orioles above the Yanks or Red Sox.

sosa would not push gibbons from the lineup. sosa will probably play left, with gibbons staying in right. although, the orioles are not happy with gibbons and his .246, 10 and 47. those numbers are awful for any player, especially a right fielder hitting in camden yards.

flyingswoosh Wrote:sosa would not push gibbons from the lineup. sosa will probably play left, with gibbons staying in right. although, the orioles are not happy with gibbons and his .246, 10 and 47. those numbers are awful for any player, especially a right fielder hitting in camden yards.

I thought they had, unless he was traded or something, Bigbie in left. Bigbie had a decent season last year. Also, Gibbons was hurt last year. Two years ago he had 23 HR and 100 RBI.

My point is that both of those players are under 30, they could easily continue to improve. We know Sosa will never improve, and while he may have a better season than either of those two next year, it won't matter because they won't make the playoffs anyway. So why give away a solid 2B and two minor leaguers? The trade makes no sense for the Orioles besides putting fans in the seats.

cbfranchise3 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:sosa would not push gibbons from the lineup.  sosa will probably play left, with gibbons staying in right.  although, the orioles are not happy with gibbons and his .246, 10 and 47.  those numbers are awful for any player, especially a right fielder hitting in camden yards.

I thought they had, unless he was traded or something, Bigbie in left. Bigbie had a decent season last year. Also, Gibbons was hurt last year. Two years ago he had 23 HR and 100 RBI.

My point is that both of those players are under 30, they could easily continue to improve. We know Sosa will never improve, and while he may have a better season than either of those two next year, it won't matter because they won't make the playoffs anyway. So why give away a solid 2B and two minor leaguers? The trade makes no sense for the Orioles besides putting fans in the seats.

they don't have much faith in bigbie. just wait until the league adjusts to him.

also, gibbons numbers have declined over the past 2 seasons. i have no idea what his problem is.

overall, i agree with you. this trade makes no sense for the orioles. and while i understand why the cubs did it, i think it will be nearly impossible to replace around 70 homers and 190 RBI.

flyingswoosh Wrote:this trade makes no sense for the orioles.

Okay, some of your posts made some good points, but this is just an outlandish statement. This move makes sense in so many ways. Not only is it a good baseball move because Sosa gives them another big bat, it also is a brilliant business move. Sosa is a baseball icon. He's a guy that fans pay to see. He will put so many extra seats in Camden Yards it's not even funny.

Now, keep in mind, this probably won't make the Orioles winners. Obviously they still need some pitching. But I just don't see how you say this move made no sense. They gave up Jerry Hairston and some kids to get a legend. Hairston is a decent complementary player, but if you want to give me Sosa for him, I'd take that so fast it would make your head spin.

there is no sense in making a trade just to fill the seats. this trade tells me that it was orchestrated by angelos. it's a bad sign when a team makes a trade based only on what their owner wants to do. the orioles 2.75 million tickets in '04, and they were 12th in percent of seats filled/game.

hairston is a very good player when healthy, and sosa is old and going downhill fast. he can't field anymore, and he brings a lot of baggage.

gdawgs, you seem to be having a problem thinking logically. sosa is going to waive his clause which would make him a free agent in a year or two, which means that the orioles gave up a good young player, and 2 capable minor leaguers for a rental, who won't get them to the playoffs anyway.

flyingswoosh Wrote:there is no sense in making a trade just to fill the seats. this trade tells me that it was orchestrated by angelos. it's a bad sign when a team makes a trade based only on what their owner wants to do. the orioles 2.75 million tickets in '04, and they were 12th in percent of seats filled/game.

hairston is a very good player when healthy, and sosa is old and going downhill fast. he can't field anymore, and he brings a lot of baggage.

gdawgs, you seem to be having a problem thinking logically. sosa is going to waive his clause which would make him a free agent in a year or two, which means that the orioles gave up a good young player, and 2 capable minor leaguers for a rental, who won't get them to the playoffs anyway.

First of all, do not tell me that I'm not thinking logically. 4th grade insults won't help you win an argument.

Now, you said that I said they made this trade just to fill the seats. WRONG! I said they made this trade to get more fans in the seats AND so that they could get a great hitter. You don't know that Sosa will leave after this season. He could, but he could just as easily like not having the pressure of being "The Guy" in Baltimore and decide to re-sign. To me, it's worth taking the risk.

Why do the Orioles need Jerry Hairston so bad? They already have a great middle infield with Miguel Tejada and Brian Roberts. Hairston is nothing more than a solid backup in Baltimore. Sosa may be going downhill, but where else would he go? He averaged 60 homers from 1998 through 2001, so he had nowhere to go but down. Last year he hit 35 homers in 126 games and it was a down year!

GDawgs88 Wrote:First of all, do not tell me that I'm not thinking logically. 4th grade insults won't help you win an argument.

Now, you said that I said they made this trade just to fill the seats. WRONG! I said they made this trade to get more fans in the seats AND so that they could get a great hitter. You don't know that Sosa will leave after this season. He could, but he could just as easily like not having the pressure of being "The Guy" in Baltimore and decide to re-sign. To me, it's worth taking the risk.

Why do the Orioles need Jerry Hairston so bad? They already have a great middle infield with Miguel Tejada and Brian Roberts. Hairston is nothing more than a solid backup in Baltimore. Sosa may be going downhill, but where else would he go? He averaged 60 homers from 1998 through 2001, so he had nowhere to go but down. Last year he hit 35 homers in 126 games and it was a down year!

that is not a 4th grade insult. did you even know what logical meant in 4th grade? i was serious, you weren't thinking logically, you were thinking very one sided.

not have the pressure of being "the guy"? you just said he was going to fill seats. isn't that pressure enough? i would think so. this is a stupid deal because the orioles need long term help, not short term help. if you think that sosa will take them anywhere, you're crazy.

As for hairston, i didn't say they needed him badly. i just said he would fit well in left field (not middle infield, where he hasn't played in a year), with his speed and on base skills.

Why am I being one-sided? Because I disagree with your dogma? You think you're right no matter what I say, and if I say something contrary to what you say, you say I'm close-minded. I could say the same thing about you, but I argue with facts and opinion, not name-calling.

No, Sosa is not "The Guy". Miguel Tejada is. It's like when the Heat traded for Shaq. It brought excitement to the city and put fans in the stands, but it was still Dwayne Wade's team. I have no idea what you're talking about if you think I think this move will take them somewhere. Did I not say they need pitching to win?

This is my last post involving this trade. Thanks for the fun debate, but I'm kind of sick of talking about this. We'll see how it all works out when the season starts.

this is my last point: sosa has not just gone down hill, he ahs gone way down. i can understand him dropping off the 55-60 homer plateau, but now his OPS is under 900, and his average is under .260.

i guess my point throughout all of this is, sosa is a very declining star, who can't field, brings a lot of baggage, and won't take the orioles anywhere. yes, he will put some fans in the seats, but is that a good reason to trade for anyone? in response to the last sentence, you'll probably say, "i never said sosa was acquired, just to fill seats, stop using second grade insults..." and then i'll say that i understand. but if we both know that sosa isn't taking them anywhere, then this trade boils down to getting a guy just to fill some seats. what a great job by the brilliant orioles. :rolleyes:

my sources tell me the cubbies are close to signing burnitz. let me just say that the cubs fans will hate this guy. yes, he has some pop, but overall he is just a terrible hitter. he tries to pull every pitch, and he swings for the fences every time.

flyingswoosh Wrote:my sources tell me the cubbies are close to signing burnitz. let me just say that the cubs fans will hate this guy. yes, he has some pop, but overall he is just a terrible hitter. he tries to pull every pitch, and he swings for the fences every time.

I can agree with you on this. He's a one-trick pony. All he wants to do is hit home runs. He is terrible at putting the ball in play, and can't get on base.

Burnitz isn't great, but considering what is out there, this is as good as they could do.

The Cubs may have missed their opportunity to win it all. If you look at their team the past two years, they should have at least gotten to the World Series at least once. Now Clement, Alou and Sosa are all gone, and 10 bucks says Dusty is gone by all-star break if the Cubs are not in first or second place.

cbfranchise3 Wrote:Burnitz isn't great, but considering what is out there, this is as good as they could do.

The Cubs may have missed their opportunity to win it all. If you look at their team the past two years, they should have at least gotten to the World Series at least once. Now Clement, Alou and Sosa are all gone, and 10 bucks says Dusty is gone by all-star break if the Cubs are not in first or second place.

maggs is out there. and, don't forget, the cubs have one of the best farm systems in baseball. they could've pulled off a trade for a big hitter.

check out this filthy top 10 <a href='http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/04top10s/brewers.html' target='_blank'>prospects</a> list for the brew crew.

weeks, fielder, hardy, capellan, rogers, the list goes on and on.