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aerojad Offline
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Post: #21
 
RebelKev Wrote:
cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Let's be honest here. America didn't enter WWII to save the Jews. In fact, America did its best to ignore what was going on half the world away. Germany had to force the US to chip in.
We were in WWII before December 7th, 1941. Just for the record, there were many reasons people enlisted to into the armed forces....saving the lives of the Jews was a reason people joined.
Really? I haven't seen any "save the Jews" enlistment posters archived from the day. Also, the consentration camps wern't discovered until the second half of the war.
07-12-2005 03:49 PM
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Post: #22
 
aerojad Wrote:But I thought that if you didn't mess with Christians, they wouldn't hurt you. Or was Germany tired of the opression being placed upon their people by the mighty forces of Poland?
More idiocy. Germany had attacked Poland, Austria, France, England, interred millions of Jews, and broke a treaty that was signed so they could save their asses after WWI.

I love how you defend Islamic Extremism by denouncing the actions the US took to defend the free world. :rolleyes:
07-12-2005 03:50 PM
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aerojad Offline
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Post: #23
 
RebelKev Wrote:
aerojad Wrote:Why should anyone send armies in to protect anyone else outside their own borders?  Why does everyone have to be everyone's police force and moral judge?
So you seriously don't understand the difference in sending help to people that request it and the actions that are being done by Muslim extremists? Well WELCOME back Nate. :rolleyes:
Quick question: Does the United States kill innocent civilans in their operations? If yes, how does that amke any difference than Muslums killing Americans? "We kill people, but we're sorry about it, so we're better!"
07-12-2005 03:52 PM
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Post: #24
 
aerojad Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Let's be honest here. America didn't enter WWII to save the Jews. In fact, America did its best to ignore what was going on half the world away. Germany had to force the US to chip in.
We were in WWII before December 7th, 1941. Just for the record, there were many reasons people enlisted to into the armed forces....saving the lives of the Jews was a reason people joined.
Really? I haven't seen any "save the Jews" enlistment posters archived from the day. Also, the consentration camps wern't discovered until the second half of the war.
Oh really? ...and when would that be? After word was getting back to the free world from downed Allied pilots? How about the tales of numerous Jews that fled to Belgium, France, or the Netherlands? That was no where near the second half of the war.
07-12-2005 03:52 PM
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cant_think_of_a_witty_nam Offline
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Post: #25
 
Actually, we were poking holes in you[r] "Christians only play nice" claim.
07-12-2005 03:52 PM
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Post: #26
 
aerojad Wrote:Quick question: Does the United States kill innocent civilans in their operations? If yes, how does that amke any difference than Muslums killing Americans? "We kill people, but we're sorry about it, so we're better!"
Yes, your point?

Here's the damn difference, we DON'T do it indiscriminately. They do.

...but it's nice to see how you continually compare our military to the Muslim extremists.
07-12-2005 03:53 PM
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aerojad Offline
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Post: #27
 
RebelKev Wrote:Germany had attacked Poland, Austria, France, England, interred millions of Jews, and broke a treaty that was signed so they could save their asses after WWI.
But if you don't mess with Christians, they'll leave you alone!

See: your list.

I'm not defending Islamic Extremism, I'm pointing out hyprocracy and the "we're better than everyone" mentality that everyone, on all sides, has, that leads to these idiotic killing sprees in the first place, and that in thousands of years of human history we have learned zero.
07-12-2005 03:54 PM
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aerojad Offline
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Post: #28
 
RebelKev Wrote:
aerojad Wrote:Quick question: Does the United States kill innocent civilans in their operations?  If yes, how does that amke any difference than Muslums killing Americans?  "We kill people, but we're sorry about it, so we're better!"
Yes, your point?

Here's the damn difference, we DON'T do it indiscriminately. They do.

...but it's nice to see how you continually compare our military to the Muslim extremists.
So we kill other people, but they don't have a right to get pissed off, because "whoops we didn't mean to"?
07-12-2005 03:55 PM
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Post: #29
 
aerojad Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:Germany had attacked Poland, Austria, France, England, interred millions of Jews, and broke a treaty that was signed so they could save their asses after WWI.
But if you don't mess with Christians, they'll leave you alone!

See: your list.

I'm not defending Islamic Extremism, I'm pointing out hyprocracy and the "we're better than everyone" mentality that everyone, on all sides, has, that leads to these idiotic killing sprees in the first place, and that in thousands of years of human history we have learned zero.
I didn't say we were better than everyone. I said we were better than Islamic extremists. Yes, that mean Christians are better than Islamic extremists. Why? Because we at LEAST clean up our own damn act. We won't stand by and watch our religion be bastardized. The reason that I am starting to think that so many "peaceful" Muslims allow this to happen is because that is what they also believe. Wanna prove me wrong? DO IT and stop defending your religion as "peaceful" while 99% of the conflicts on Earth involve Muslim extremists.
07-12-2005 03:57 PM
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Post: #30
 
aerojad Wrote:So we kill other people, but they don't have a right to get pissed off, because "whoops we didn't mean to"?
I must have missed the news story on Medinah being attacked by airliners. You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you? :rolleyes:
07-12-2005 03:58 PM
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aerojad Offline
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Post: #31
 
RebelKev Wrote:
aerojad Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:Germany had attacked Poland, Austria, France, England, interred millions of Jews, and broke a treaty that was signed so they could save their asses after WWI.
But if you don't mess with Christians, they'll leave you alone!

See: your list.

I'm not defending Islamic Extremism, I'm pointing out hyprocracy and the "we're better than everyone" mentality that everyone, on all sides, has, that leads to these idiotic killing sprees in the first place, and that in thousands of years of human history we have learned zero.
I didn't say we were better than everyone. I said we were better than Islamic extremists. Yes, that mean Christians are better than Islamic extremists. Why? Because we at LEAST clean up our own damn act. We won't stand by and watch our religion be bastardized. The reason that I am starting to think that so many "peaceful" Muslims allow this to happen is because that is what they also believe. Wanna prove me wrong? DO IT and stop defending your religion as "peaceful" while 99% of the conflicts on Earth involve Muslim extremists.
Sure, Muslum extremism is a corrupting force that ruined a civilization (Arabs did bring us a hell of a lot in the field of Math way back when, for example), but Christian extremism isn't helping the progress of man that much either with their desire to stop science in its tracks before we widdle some more power away from things that only god could once do. Extremism in all arenas is bad. Thankfully for our way of life, the Christian extremists don't use bullets at this time, but they still have some rather backward views on how a society should be run - just like Muslum extremists do. So does this mean Christianity can be dismissed as a violent religion when they claim to be a peaceful one? About as much as we can dismiss the Muslum faith, which is not at all.
07-12-2005 04:02 PM
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aerojad Offline
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Post: #32
 
RebelKev Wrote:
aerojad Wrote:So we kill other people, but they don't have a right to get pissed off, because "whoops we didn't mean to"?
I must have missed the news story on Medinah being attacked by airliners. You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you? :rolleyes:
So the weapon of choice makes the killing not as bad as others? 5,000lb bombs missing their targets are better than airplanes, I suppose!
07-12-2005 04:03 PM
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Post: #33
 
aerojad Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
aerojad Wrote:So we kill other people, but they don't have a right to get pissed off, because "whoops we didn't mean to"?
I must have missed the news story on Medinah being attacked by airliners. You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you? :rolleyes:
So the weapon of choice makes the killing not as bad as others? 5,000lb bombs missing their targets are better than airplanes, I suppose!
Did the airliners on 9/11 get off their Ft. Drum course and accidentally slam into the Twin Towers? Last time I checked, we didn't declare war on Islamic extremists first. That happened in '93, and to a certain extent, Iran circa 1979. Your argument and comparison is weak, to say the least, distorting to promote your agenda to say the most.

Your blase and obtuse attitude to the fact that Islamic extremists have been at war with us for years before 9/11 is on the brink of insanity. You can only defend them so much and bringing up crusades and events 300 years past is pointless. You are essentially saying they are still in their youthful state. :rolleyes:
07-12-2005 05:07 PM
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Post: #34
 
Quote:We won't stand by and watch our religion be bastardized.


:laugh:

Sorry that's just humerous to me. How many Christian sects are there?

Quote:The reason that I am starting to think that so many "peaceful" Muslims allow this to happen is because that is what they also believe.


So whay aren't the Catholics trying to stop the Baptists? Since they aren't I guess they must believe what the Baptists believe.
07-12-2005 10:06 PM
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Post: #35
 
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:
Quote:We won't stand by and watch our religion be bastardized.

:laugh:

Sorry that's just humerous to me. How many Christian sects are there?

Quote:The reason that I am starting to think that so many "peaceful" Muslims allow this to happen is because that is what they also believe.

So whay aren't the Catholics trying to stop the Baptists? Since they aren't I guess they must believe what the Baptists believe.
Ah, so Muslim extremists are akin to Baptists? If we are talking degrees here, Baptists are still freezing while Muslim extremists are the same temp as the manifold on my Jeep after driving to Washington state.

I mean, think about it, are you trying to justify Islam by stating that these terrorists are just another "sect" of Islam? Funny, I haven't read too much about Christians beheading people here lately. Nope, last I checked 99% of the conflicts in the world were brought on by, you guessed it, Muslims.
07-12-2005 10:24 PM
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Post: #36
 
....I also think Ockham's Razor, to which Dr. Torch addresses often, can also be applied here. While all of the so-called young "experts" are trying to explain terrorism, have you ever thought that maybe they just want us all dead? I hear them and I hear you. I cannot take heed to one while discounting the other. With that said, I will conclude that the effers want us dead.

If you guys DON'T understand my entire point, I'll sum it up, yet again:

Until I see masses of Muslims protesting the KILLING of innocent civilians INDISCRIMINATELY, I will consider them all enemies. It's time to see things for the way they are. Sitting down by the campfire and roasting marshmellows isn't, nor has it ever, going to work. They'd as soon have your *** on the fire.
07-12-2005 10:31 PM
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Bourgeois_Rage Away
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Post: #37
 
Way to totally take what I was saying and twist it around.

Quote:I mean, think about it, are you trying to justify Islam by stating that these terrorists are just another "sect" of Islam?

Nope maybe you need to brush up on some reading comprehension. Show me where I said Catholics are in favor of beheading because Baptists are. Just applying your logic to another situation. A different situation.

Quote:Until I see masses of Muslims protesting the KILLING of innocent civilians INDISCRIMINATELY, I will consider them all enemies.

Until I see masses of Christians protesting the killing of innocent civilians, I guess we should consider them enemies. I guess since there has been no organized revolt against the terrorist by the Christians they must be all for it? Sorry that makes absolutely no sense. In fact that's probably the same logic the terrorists use. "A bomb blew up my house and family, it came from the west and since there isn't a large protest against this attack, I will assume that all westerners should die." Nonsense.

I absolutely do not expect this to convince you. You're set in your thoughts. That's all well and good, but I think you're wrong. A few people's actions and words are not enough for me to condemn a whole race/culture of people. I have a few freidns that are of Muslim heritage and they haven't killed me, yet. But I would be naive to think that all Muslims are my friends because a small handful have not killed me. For me applying that same logic, albeit backwards, is equally naive.

Secundum quid.
07-13-2005 06:57 AM
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Post: #38
 
JTiger Wrote:I was in college at the time and knew many international students that told me stories of targeting due to thier ethnicity. Most not violent, but a few were. Most of them were christians, but it's not like you wear a badge that states your faith. Many instances went unreported by these students. I don't know about anybody else.
Targeting or perceived targeting?

And what did this consist of? Being extra cautious or sucspicious?

Finally, were any real incidents above and beyond things that happened up to 9/10/01? I remember letters to the editor at ASU from international students griping about their treatment. [Fortunately ASU was so apathetic that no one cared, but it steamed me since I was paying for those folks scholarships, which were often unmerited.]
07-13-2005 07:11 AM
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Post: #39
 
aerojad Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Let's be honest here. America didn't enter WWII to save the Jews. In fact, America did its best to ignore what was going on half the world away. Germany had to force the US to chip in.
We were in WWII before December 7th, 1941. Just for the record, there were many reasons people enlisted to into the armed forces....saving the lives of the Jews was a reason people joined.
Really? I haven't seen any "save the Jews" enlistment posters archived from the day. Also, the consentration camps wern't discovered until the second half of the war.
I thought the US was ignoring what went on.

Way to play both sides of the fence.

Maybe the term "Christian nation" is too awkward and too open to varying interpetations, but the Christians of the US were appalled and active.

As for the "dozen" crusades "for the hell of it", I suggest you review some history.
07-13-2005 07:16 AM
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JTiger Offline
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Post: #40
 
DrTorch Wrote:
JTiger Wrote:I was in college at the time and knew many international students that told me stories of targeting due to thier ethnicity.  Most not violent, but a few were.  Most of them were christians, but it's not like you wear a badge that states your faith.  Many instances went unreported by these students.  I don't know about anybody else.
Targeting or perceived targeting?

And what did this consist of? Being extra cautious or sucspicious?

Finally, were any real incidents above and beyond things that happened up to 9/10/01? I remember letters to the editor at ASU from international students griping about their treatment. [Fortunately ASU was so apathetic that no one cared, but it steamed me since I was paying for those folks scholarships, which were often unmerited.]
Some of them were beat up, but mostly it was just threats of violence. This never occured before 9/11 according to the induviduals I talked to.
07-13-2005 07:46 AM
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