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P6 OOC hoops records - ken d - 12-18-2017 06:42 PM
Through 12/17, the following are the records of each of the P6 hoops conferences against the other five.
B12...17-11....61%
ACC...27-18....60%
EAS...19-17....53%
PAC...14-15....48%
SEC...15-21....42%
B1G...19-29....40%
There is a significant disparity between the number of such games per conference member. The Big East has played the most, and the PAC the least.
EAS...3.6 games per member
B1G...3.4
ACC...3.0
B12...2.8
SEC...2.6
PAC...2.4
18 P6 teams have not yet won an OOC game against a P6. Six of those haven't won because they have not yet played a single P6 opponent. They are:
TCU
California
Washington St
Auburn
Mississippi St
South Carolina
The others are:
DePaul.........0-5
Wisconsin.....0-5
Vanderbilt.....0-5
Stanford.......0-3
Boston Coll...0-3
Pittsburgh.....0-3
Alabama.......0-2
Iowa............0-2
Ole Miss.......0-2
Georgetown..0-1
Colorado......0-1
Oregon St....0-1
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - Stugray2 - 12-18-2017 08:19 PM
Cal wouldn't win anyway, they are a four alarm dumpster fire this year.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - Captain Bearcat - 12-19-2017 01:06 AM
The American is 18-20 against P6. That's 47.3%, better than the Big 10 and SEC
To re-order it:
B12.........21-14.....60%
ACC........31-20....61%
EAS........22-18....55%
American..18-20....47%
SEC........20-24....45%
B1G........22-31....42%
PAC........13-20....39%
4 of the 12 teams in the American have not beaten P6 opponents.
# of teams with no wins against P7 opponents:
SEC: 5 (formerly 6 in your list, but Alabama beat Memphis)
PAC: 5
American: 4
ACC: 2
Big Ten: 2
Big East: 2
Big 12: 0 (formerly 1 in your list, but TCU beat SMU)
The 4 laggards in the American are:
USF......... 0-1
ECU........ 0-1
Tulane.... 0-2
Memphis.. 0-2
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - tcufrog86 - 12-19-2017 09:59 AM
(12-19-2017 01:06 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: The American is 18-20 against P6. That's 47.3%, better than the Big 10 and SEC
To re-order it:
B12.........21-14.....60%
ACC........31-20....61%
EAS........22-18....55%
American..18-20....47%
SEC........20-24....45%
B1G........22-31....42%
PAC........13-20....39%
4 of the 12 teams in the American have not beaten P6 opponents.
# of teams with no wins against P7 opponents:
SEC: 5 (formerly 6 in your list, but Alabama beat Memphis)
PAC: 5
American: 4
ACC: 2
Big Ten: 2
Big East: 2
Big 12: 0 (formerly 1 in your list, but TCU beat SMU)
The 4 laggards in the American are:
USF......... 0-1
ECU........ 0-1
Tulane.... 0-2
Memphis.. 0-2
Makes sense to include the American in this discussion as well, there is a pretty clear separation IMO between the football P5 + Big East + American and the remainder of the leagues.
Plus it take TCU off of the 0 win list
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - ken d - 12-19-2017 12:13 PM
The conference that appears to have been hurt the most by over scheduling is the Atlantic 10, which has a combined record of 9-40 against these top seven conferences. The result of that may be that the A10 may be a one bid league this year.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - IWokeUpLikeThis - 12-19-2017 01:58 PM
Top mid major leagues against P7:
Missouri Valley 9-10
West Coast 7-16
Mountain West 6-22
Atlantic 10 9-40
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - RutgersGuy - 12-19-2017 04:31 PM
There is a P6, not P7.
P6 OOC hoops records - Pony94 - 12-19-2017 04:32 PM
(12-19-2017 04:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: There is a P6, not P7.
Rutgers haha
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - RutgersGuy - 12-19-2017 06:18 PM
(12-19-2017 04:32 PM)Pony94 Wrote:(12-19-2017 04:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: There is a P6, not P7.
Rutgers haha
Well it's true, so laugh it up.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - Captain Bearcat - 12-19-2017 08:51 PM
(12-19-2017 04:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: There is a P6, not P7.
It's P5 in football.
Now that the American has added Wichita State, it's P7 in basketball. If you insist that it's a P6 in basketball, then the SEC or PAC must be dropped because the 12 teams currently in the American are usually better than either of those conferences.
The American has had 4 of the last 18 national titles. And the conference is tough enough that the program that won those titles (UConn) hasn't even won a regular season conference title yet.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - GoldenWarrior11 - 12-19-2017 09:52 PM
I could care less if there is a P6 or a P7. All I know is that my alma mater is in a conference that is considered a peer to the major power conferences in basketball, and is treated as such by the networks and an overwhelming majority of basketball fans. Frankly, any conference that needs to argue whether or not it is in a club probably isn't in it to begin with.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - RutgersGuy - 12-20-2017 12:48 AM
(12-19-2017 08:51 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:(12-19-2017 04:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: There is a P6, not P7.
It's P5 in football.
Now that the American has added Wichita State, it's P7 in basketball. If you insist that it's a P6 in basketball, then the SEC or PAC must be dropped because the 12 teams currently in the American are usually better than either of those conferences.
The American has had 4 of the last 18 national titles. And the conference is tough enough that the program that won those titles (UConn) hasn't even won a regular season conference title yet.
Except they aren't. The AAC has yet to finish higher than either of those in RPI ranking since it's inception and even finished below the A-10 a few times.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - Captain Bearcat - 12-20-2017 12:59 AM
(12-19-2017 09:52 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: I could care less if there is a P6 or a P7. All I know is that my alma mater is in a conference that is considered a peer to the major power conferences in basketball, and is treated as such by the networks and an overwhelming majority of basketball fans. Frankly, any conference that needs to argue whether or not it is in a club probably isn't in it to begin with.
Good point. In basketball the distinction is less important. So the SEC and PAC should both be allowed in the club.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - CliftonAve - 12-20-2017 08:49 AM
(12-20-2017 12:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(12-19-2017 08:51 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:(12-19-2017 04:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: There is a P6, not P7.
It's P5 in football.
Now that the American has added Wichita State, it's P7 in basketball. If you insist that it's a P6 in basketball, then the SEC or PAC must be dropped because the 12 teams currently in the American are usually better than either of those conferences.
The American has had 4 of the last 18 national titles. And the conference is tough enough that the program that won those titles (UConn) hasn't even won a regular season conference title yet.
Except they aren't. The AAC has yet to finish higher than either of those in RPI ranking since it's inception and even finished below the A-10 a few times.
Rutgers is a major basketball program; Cincinnati, UConn and Memphis clearly are not....
Said no one ever!
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - ken d - 12-20-2017 06:20 PM
(12-19-2017 08:51 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:(12-19-2017 04:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: There is a P6, not P7.
It's P5 in football.
Now that the American has added Wichita State, it's P7 in basketball. If you insist that it's a P6 in basketball, then the SEC or PAC must be dropped because the 12 teams currently in the American are usually better than either of those conferences.
The American has had 4 of the last 18 national titles. And the conference is tough enough that the program that won those titles (UConn) hasn't even won a regular season conference title yet.
I'm not sure I'd use that argument. It could just as easily be argued that the only AAC team to win in the last 20 years is no longer very good. And that the only other team to win a championship last did it 55 years ago.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - megadrone - 12-20-2017 06:45 PM
(12-19-2017 08:51 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:(12-19-2017 04:31 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote: There is a P6, not P7.
It's P5 in football.
Now that the American has added Wichita State, it's P7 in basketball. If you insist that it's a P6 in basketball, then the SEC or PAC must be dropped because the 12 teams currently in the American are usually better than either of those conferences.
The American has had 4 of the last 18 national titles. And the conference is tough enough that the program that won those titles (UConn) hasn't even won a regular season conference title yet.
3. One was vacated by a team no longer in the conference.
UConn has a great recent history but it remains to be seen if Ollie is Larry Coker or Jim Calhoun. The competition in the American isn't as stiff as it was in BE 2.0 and UConn should be near the top of the conference.
Perhaps last year was an aberration; we will see. But hard to talk tough coming off a 2 bid year though the American should be a 3 to 4 bid conference on a regular basis.
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - ken d - 12-21-2017 02:28 PM
Since there are no New Year's Bowls in college basketball, it doesn't really make sense to use a "P" designation, which means a guaranteed berth in an NY6 bowl.
What matters is how teams are selected for the NCAAT. That got me thinking about alternatives to that process. Here's what I came up with.
I put 8 conferences in a "Tier 1" category based on a combination of prior success and athletics budgets. Those were: AAC, ACC, B12, B1G, BE, MWC, SEC, and PAC.
In "Tier 2" are the remaining 24 conferences.
My tournament has an 88 team field, consisting of 56 teams from Tier 1 and 32 teams from tier 2.
Tier 1 includes the 8 conference champions and 48 at large teams selected based on their composite strength ranking. That ranking is the average of their Massey Composite, KenPom and Sagarin ratings.
Tier 2 includes the 24 conference champions and 8 at large teams selected in the same manner as Tier 1. The 32 Tier 2 teams play down to 8, who go on to fill out the round of 64. That round is seeded based on the composite strength ranking of the 64 remaining teams, so a strong Tier 2 team like Gonzaga isn't penalized in seeding.
Using that methodology, and assuming the conference champions would be the highest ranked team as of today, the following are the number of teams in the 88 team field by conference.
Tier 1:
ACC...10
B12....9
B1G....8
SEC....8
BE......7
PAC....5
AAC....5
MWC...4
Tier 2:
A10....4
CUSA..3
WCC...3
MVC...2
20 at 1 each
If form held in the first two rounds and the highest ranked teams in Tier 2 all made it to the round of 64, the lowest ranked team still in the field at that point would be #65. The Tier 2 portion of the tourney would have to be completed by the Saturday before the round of 64 starts to give the Pairings Committee time to place everybody in the appropriate sub-regional site. That would give the Tier 2 teams center stage for the first two rounds.
While the larger field would reduce the value of each unit of payout, the impact on the P5 schools would be minimal compared to their annual athletics budget. Probably not much more than $100K per year if that. It would also reduce the amount the one-bid conferences get. The schools that would get the biggest financial benefit would be the schools in the 7 conferences who are outside the P5 for football. Those are the schools who will get more teams in the NCAAT than they do now.
Now, imagine if the #1 overall seed played the #65 seed in its first game instead of #275. How long would it be before a #1 seed lost its opening game?
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - CougarRed - 12-23-2017 04:24 PM
(12-19-2017 09:59 AM)tcufrog86 Wrote: Makes sense to include the American in this discussion as well, there is a pretty clear separation IMO between the football P5 + Big East + American and the remainder of the leagues.
Indeed. ESPN, who is about to renegotiate a contract with the American, refers to the P7 in basketball which includes the American.
![[Image: DRnfWUUU8AAECAP.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRnfWUUU8AAECAP.jpg)
RE: P6 OOC hoops records - Stugray2 - 12-24-2017 12:18 AM
Huskies sure looked like a power team against Auburn yesterday ... NOT!
The term is "major" for Basketball.