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+---- Thread: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? (/thread-814173.html)
Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Kittonhead - 04-01-2017 08:01 PM
There is blood in the MVC water. Wichita is gone but Illinois State is still in the MVC.
Would it make sense for the MAC to make a move to raid the MVC of Illinois State now that its a shaky 1 big conference?
When Creighton left the MVC was trending down. The MVC now IS down and really weak.
MAC could grab Illinois State and bring back Marshall. Two schools easy on travel.
This would force an opening in CUSA who could then grab Missouri State. This would weaken the MVC even further down to the Summit/Horizon League level.
Thoughts?
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Kittonhead - 04-01-2017 08:36 PM
Grab 2 from the MVC and Horizon to become the "A10 of the Midwest"
MVC (Ill State, Mo State)
Horizon (UI-Chicago, UW-Milwaukee)
That would give the MAC a super strong presence in Chicago land with UWM, NIU, UIC and Illinois State within regional proximity.
Pull the trigger after the AAC signs its next TV deal for more negotiating leverage.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - cmufanatic - 04-01-2017 08:55 PM
I would rather see Northern Iowa over Illinois State. pretty consistent in hoops and football, also expands the MAC footprint a bit into a different state.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - kreed5120 - 04-01-2017 09:27 PM
Why would those teams leave for a basketball conference that hasn't had an at-large in nearly 20 years and isn't even good enough to get an at-large to the NIT. Not to mention those schools would play second fiddle to the football wing the same as the catholic 7 of old Big East. MVC taking Valpo is what would make most sense to mitigate the damage.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Stay Cool - 04-01-2017 10:05 PM
(04-01-2017 08:55 PM)cmufanatic Wrote: I would rather see Northern Iowa over Illinois State. pretty consistent in hoops and football, also expands the MAC footprint a bit into a different state.Also a rival for NIU seeing as we are constantly confused for one another...
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RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - perimeterpost - 04-02-2017 01:50 AM
Wake up, there is no white stallion program that's going to ride in and change the complexion of the MAC. You want the MAC to get better, let your favorite school know that you want tougher OOC games. it won't solve all our problems, but its a step in the right direction.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - kreed5120 - 04-02-2017 09:01 AM
What the MAC really needs is better coaches who can attract better players. I agree MAC schedules are weak, but it's not like we're beating quality teams anyways. The MAC this OOC season went 0/27 against RPI top 100s. You can schedule all the quality opponents you want, but unless you can beat them it's all for not.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Kittonhead - 04-02-2017 09:27 AM
(04-01-2017 09:27 PM)kreed5120 Wrote: Why would those teams leave for a basketball conference that hasn't had an at-large in nearly 20 years and isn't even good enough to get an at-large to the NIT. Not to mention those schools would play second fiddle to the football wing the same as the catholic 7 of old Big East. MVC taking Valpo is what would make most sense to mitigate the damage.
Why are UTA and Little Rock in the SBC and not the WAC? They are hanging around because its much better to be associated with an FBS conference.
If the MAC could make the MVC/Horizon decidedly worse by taking 4 of their better schools it helps the MAC relative to those conferences.
The problem in Midwest basketball is that there isn't an A10 level league as there is on the East Coast. A basketball conference that is decidedly at the top of the mid major food chain after the BE and B1G to handle overflow talent. That's why the A10 is 3 bids. It handles the overflow. I wish the MAC was like that and not losing players to the MVC or Horizon.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - axeme - 04-02-2017 09:43 AM
The A10 is the Midwest version of the A10. Look at how many A10 schools are inside the MAC footprint.
If you want that level of basketball, drop BCS football and put the money into hoops like they have. Until you want to match the basketball resources/budget of UD and Xavier (to say nothing of UC), the MAC schools will be very, well, MAC-like.
There is not some geographic niche in the Midwest for the MAC to fill. The A10, Big East and American have enough schools inside the MAC footprint to do that. The American is the FBS competitor of the lot. Again, MAC schools need to match the basketball commitment of those schools if it wants to improve. It's not that complicated.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Kittonhead - 04-02-2017 09:52 AM
(04-02-2017 09:43 AM)axeme Wrote: The A10 is the Midwest version of the A10. Look at how many A10 schools are inside the MAC footprint.
Only 1 really in Dayton. They may be heading to the AAC if UC leaves.
Recruiting saturation is more important than budgets IMO. Part of the A10's magic is that it is 14 teams and not 10 so it squeezes out the remaining high major talent along the East Coast.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - axeme - 04-02-2017 09:54 AM
St. Louis flanks the MAC west and let's not forget Duquesne who just poached the most successful current MAC coach.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - kreed5120 - 04-02-2017 09:59 AM
(04-02-2017 09:27 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:(04-01-2017 09:27 PM)kreed5120 Wrote: Why would those teams leave for a basketball conference that hasn't had an at-large in nearly 20 years and isn't even good enough to get an at-large to the NIT. Not to mention those schools would play second fiddle to the football wing the same as the catholic 7 of old Big East. MVC taking Valpo is what would make most sense to mitigate the damage.
Why are UTA and Little Rock in the SBC and not the WAC? They are hanging around because its much better to be associated with an FBS conference.
If the MAC could make the MVC/Horizon decidedly worse by taking 4 of their better schools it helps the MAC relative to those conferences.
The problem in Midwest basketball is that there isn't an A10 level league as there is on the East Coast. A basketball conference that is decidedly at the top of the mid major food chain after the BE and B1G to handle overflow talent. That's why the A10 is 3 bids. It handles the overflow. I wish the MAC was like that and not losing players to the MVC or Horizon.
They play in the Sun Belt because not only is the Sun Belt the better and more stable basketball conference, it also keeps them closer to other teams in their conference helping to keep travel costs down. Those schools flying all their athletic teams to California and Seattle would be insanely expensive.
Sure, but it still leaves them behind everyone else.
I'd say the MVC is closer to that currently and would be the better long-term option for schools that want to make basketball their #1 option. The A-10 wouldn't nearly be as good as it is if they were spending ~$8 million per year on FBS football. Instead they throw all their resources into basketball, which is why it is as good as it is. The MVC isn't a FBS conference and the schools in it already pour more resources into basketball than the MAC. Those schools leaving for the MAC would only make sense if they want to add FBS football.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Kittonhead - 04-02-2017 10:08 AM
Illinois at the moment is divided by 5 mid major D1 conferences.
MVC (Loyola, Ill St, Bradley, Southern Ill)
MAC (NIU)
Horizon (UIC)
Summit (WIU)
OVC (Eastern Illinois, SIU-E)
My proposal puts the 3 biggest schools in the MAC.
MAC (NIU, Illinois St, UIC)
MVC (Loyola, Bradley, Southern Ill)
Horizon (WIU)
OVC (Eastern Illinois, SIU-E)
Some consolidation. MVC would be forced to add Valpo and UMKC to stay at 10. Horizon would have to add Fort Wayne from the Summit to stay at 8.
MAC would be at 16 schools with (Mo St, Ill St, UWM, UIC). It's going to be the deepest Midwestern mid-major every year.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Kittonhead - 04-02-2017 10:32 AM
(04-02-2017 09:59 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:(04-02-2017 09:27 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:(04-01-2017 09:27 PM)kreed5120 Wrote: Why would those teams leave for a basketball conference that hasn't had an at-large in nearly 20 years and isn't even good enough to get an at-large to the NIT. Not to mention those schools would play second fiddle to the football wing the same as the catholic 7 of old Big East. MVC taking Valpo is what would make most sense to mitigate the damage.
Why are UTA and Little Rock in the SBC and not the WAC? They are hanging around because its much better to be associated with an FBS conference.
If the MAC could make the MVC/Horizon decidedly worse by taking 4 of their better schools it helps the MAC relative to those conferences.
The problem in Midwest basketball is that there isn't an A10 level league as there is on the East Coast. A basketball conference that is decidedly at the top of the mid major food chain after the BE and B1G to handle overflow talent. That's why the A10 is 3 bids. It handles the overflow. I wish the MAC was like that and not losing players to the MVC or Horizon.
They play in the Sun Belt because not only is the Sun Belt the better and more stable basketball conference, it also keeps them closer to other teams in their conference helping to keep travel costs down. Those schools flying all their athletic teams to California and Seattle would be insanely expensive.
Sure, but it still leaves them behind everyone else.
I'd say the MVC is closer to that currently and would be the better long-term option for schools that want to make basketball their #1 option. The A-10 wouldn't nearly be as good as it is if they were spending ~$8 million per year on FBS football. Instead they throw all their resources into basketball, which is why it is as good as it is. The MVC isn't a FBS conference and the schools in it already pour more resources into basketball than the MAC. Those schools leaving for the MAC would only make sense if they want to add FBS football.
When the A10 started it was mostly public schools and in the 80's the only 2 major basketball conferences were the BE and A10 in the Northeast. B1G and ACC were not in that space at the time, though ACC has always recruited the Northeast well.
The A10 when it had defections backfilled with basketball schools to keep its historical #2 position in the Northeast.
MVC historically was the #2 in the Midwest. Cincinnati, Louisville and Memphis were once in the conference. They had football but also deep pockets for basketball. MVC has kept its brand intact enough to backfill successfully. However they've kept membership at 10 schools and are running out of quality replacements.
My plan has Illinois State & Missouri State getting the call up to FBS. They want FBS but haven't found a home yet. Then UIC/UWM to double down on Chicagoland with their enrollments would be good fits. UIC/UWM wouldn't have football so they could concentrate on facility investments in basketball.
Its the only expansion that could help the MAC from a basketball perspective. Something like Marshall and James Madison isn't going to help basketball. The MAC has to target the Valley with an institutional package they can't refuse.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - FMRocket - 04-02-2017 11:54 AM
Illinois State to the west and James Madison to the east...
All sports, and I believe both could be competitive right away...
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Love and Honor - 04-02-2017 12:11 PM
No. There aren't any schools out there which would join the MAC and justify adding two more months to feed. This has been discussed ad nauseum and nothing is happening unless someone is poached or they drop down.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Miami (Oh) Yeah ! - 04-02-2017 12:13 PM
If MWC adds Gonzaga then MAC moves ahead of WCC pemananently too and then MAC adds St. Louis and UMass to weaken the A10. Then there are no non-FBS conferences except Big East competing with G5. St. Louis wouldnt take any CFP mobey from MAC and 30% of TV money.
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - utpotts - 04-02-2017 12:13 PM
The stupid just never ends...........
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - kreed5120 - 04-02-2017 12:15 PM
(04-02-2017 12:13 PM)utpotts Wrote: The stupid just never ends...........
+1
RE: Is it time for the MAC to make a move (MVC)? - Miami (Oh) Yeah ! - 04-02-2017 12:50 PM
+2