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+---- Thread: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? (/thread-808130.html)
Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - H.U.S.T.L.E. - 02-06-2017 12:04 PM
This topic came up in the National Signing Day thread last week and it's popped up in other various places on this board, but I thought it was worth highlighting on its own.
I think Stanford is pretty unique in the college athletics landscape and it would be much more difficult for someone like Duke or UVA to reach that level.
As has been noted before, Stanford has advantages that ACC teams don't enjoy. I think geography is the biggest reason it's been so successful, since it's not competing for top-level academic-minded athletes with a plethora of other schools. Duke & UVA are competing within their own league sometimes against Wake Forest & BC, plus others like Vanderbilt, Northwestern and sometimes the Ivy League. The west coast just doesn't have the same number of elite institutions jockeying for football talent.
In terms of profile, Duke probably comes the closest in terms of being a private school with similar enrollment numbers and a large endowment. Their alumni have also shown a willingness to fund athletics in recent years - the fundraising effort launched in 2012 to raise $250 million dollars has already surpassed its goal by over $100 million, and way before then end of the timeline set. They've clearly seen the value in raising the profile of their football program and the investment in coaching, plus stadium & facility upgrades are the proof.
Contrast that with UVA, who has the resources, but seemingly lack the institutional will to make it happen. If they ever find an athletic director who can engage the alumni base and generate momentum for the football program, there's a possibility for UVA to surge and make themselves relevant.
What does everyone else think? Are the challenges too much to overcome on the east coast to produce a Stanford-like program? Are there other ACC programs that may fit the bill? I thought there was more discussion to be had, but got a little overshadowed in the NSD thread. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on the matter.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - georgia_tech_swagger - 02-06-2017 12:28 PM
To be Stanford you have to have a litany of patsy bogus liberal arts majors to hide players in. Google "Stanford Easy A List" ... the football team got in trouble for it when it leaked to the press. The "Easy A List" is still around, and those classes are still dominated by athletes.
Then on top of that you need to have endowment driven revenue even on the athletics side.
Those two requirements preclude everybody but Duke pretty much.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Lou_C - 02-06-2017 12:46 PM
Was thinking pretty much the same thing GTS said.
Plus, nothing really competes with that location/weather.
And in spite of Stanford being bad for a long time in football, they sponsor a million sports and take sports seriously.
But while I don't think anyone can "be Stanford" there are probably some lessons that could be learned.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - TerryD - 02-06-2017 01:01 PM
If ND ever gets their football act together and gets serious about winning, then maybe ND with its history, tradition, revenues, fan base, etc... could become like Stanford in all sports.
About 15 years ago, ND's then President called Stanford "our aspirational peer".........
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Lou_C - 02-06-2017 03:06 PM
(02-06-2017 01:01 PM)TerryD Wrote: If ND ever gets their football act together and gets serious about winning, then maybe ND with its history, tradition, revenues, fan base, etc... could become like Stanford in all sports.
About 15 years ago, ND's then President called Stanford "our aspirational peer".........
I think the premise of the thread was about football.
I don't think anyone was wondering if someone in the ACC could become the Stanford of basketball or lacrosse. That's already half the conference.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - nole - 02-06-2017 03:31 PM
Duke and UVA.
Both have many of the characteristics of Stanford. Both care about sports.....just not football.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Hallcity - 02-06-2017 10:05 PM
(02-06-2017 03:31 PM)nole Wrote: Duke and UVA.
Both have many of the characteristics of Stanford. Both care about sports.....just not football.
We're back to the "If you're not a big football winner, it must be because you just don't care" school of sports analysis.
Just to put out an example of how simplistic this is, has anyone noticed that Notre Dame football seems to be in long term decline? Is that because they just stopped caring?
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Hokie Mark - 02-06-2017 11:06 PM
To be honest, the schools most similar to Stanford (except for location) are probably Duke and Syracuse. COULD the Orange achieve Stanford-esque football success? Well, they've done it before... so has Duke, though it's been MUCH longer (mostly before the ACC was even formed).
Miami and Pitt are also both private(ish) schools with multiple national championships, but in both cases I think those were due to local recruiting, not national (like Stanford).
I don't think Wake Forest or Boston College have ever had an extended run of football success on the same level as Stanford (Five Top 10 finishes in a row), but if that's wrong, maybe someone here can enlighten me.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Lou_C - 02-07-2017 09:51 AM
As the parents of kids in or going into college, I will mention that Stanford has an aura that is really unmatched by the likes of Syracuse or even Duke or Vanderbilt or Virginia.
Everyone knows those are good schools but Stanford = Ivy image wise today. For a prospective college student, Stanford is California Harvard with real sports and the beach.
25 years ago, when I was that age, I have to say that while everyone knew Stanford was a great school, I thought of it like I would think of Duke or Northwestern or Notre Dame or whatever other elite schools. Maybe that was just my ignorance and Stanford was always an Ivy equal, but it just didn't seem the same way.
For college age kids today, Stanford is an entirely different level from Duke or Virginia and is fetishized completely. There's a common acronym in prospective college student circles and message boards describing students or credentials or scores as "HYPS". Stands for Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford. Stanford is actually elevated over much of the Ivy League.
For ACC schools to literally reach the Stanford level, it would require public relations efforts for a couple decades well beyond football to get Duke or Virginia mentioned in the same breath.
However, again, there should be things those schools can do to emulate some parts of what Stanford has done.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - TerryD - 02-07-2017 11:41 AM
(02-06-2017 03:06 PM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-06-2017 01:01 PM)TerryD Wrote: If ND ever gets their football act together and gets serious about winning, then maybe ND with its history, tradition, revenues, fan base, etc... could become like Stanford in all sports.
About 15 years ago, ND's then President called Stanford "our aspirational peer".........
I think the premise of the thread was about football.
I don't think anyone was wondering if someone in the ACC could become the Stanford of basketball or lacrosse. That's already half the conference.
I, too, meant football. Stanford is the far better program right now.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - TerryD - 02-07-2017 11:45 AM
(02-06-2017 10:05 PM)Hallcity Wrote:(02-06-2017 03:31 PM)nole Wrote: Duke and UVA.
Both have many of the characteristics of Stanford. Both care about sports.....just not football.
We're back to the "If you're not a big football winner, it must be because you just don't care" school of sports analysis.
Just to put out an example of how simplistic this is, has anyone noticed that Notre Dame football seems to be in long term decline? Is that because they just stopped caring?
Yes. It has happened before and is happening now.
The Holy Cross Fathers who run ND are embarrassed by a big time winning football program.
It has been an historic pendulum swing for ND. Look at its history.
When ND goes on a really good run, the Administration pulls the reins.
They worry about football getting too big and powerful, and overshadowing academics.
They forced out both Frank Leahy in the Fifties and Lou Holtz in the Nineties for this reason.
They love to market the tradition and make piles of money, but they really don't want to do what it takes to compete for titles any longer.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Lou_C - 02-07-2017 11:46 AM
(02-07-2017 11:41 AM)TerryD Wrote:(02-06-2017 03:06 PM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-06-2017 01:01 PM)TerryD Wrote: If ND ever gets their football act together and gets serious about winning, then maybe ND with its history, tradition, revenues, fan base, etc... could become like Stanford in all sports.
About 15 years ago, ND's then President called Stanford "our aspirational peer".........
I think the premise of the thread was about football.
I don't think anyone was wondering if someone in the ACC could become the Stanford of basketball or lacrosse. That's already half the conference.
I, too, meant football. Stanford is the far better program right now.
Notre Dame football couldn't be the "Stanford of the ACC" because they're not in the ACC. We're not talking about out of conference opponents that could be Stanford. I suppose Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc could also emulate Stanford in some way.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - TerryD - 02-07-2017 11:47 AM
(02-07-2017 11:46 AM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-07-2017 11:41 AM)TerryD Wrote:(02-06-2017 03:06 PM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-06-2017 01:01 PM)TerryD Wrote: If ND ever gets their football act together and gets serious about winning, then maybe ND with its history, tradition, revenues, fan base, etc... could become like Stanford in all sports.
About 15 years ago, ND's then President called Stanford "our aspirational peer".........
I think the premise of the thread was about football.
I don't think anyone was wondering if someone in the ACC could become the Stanford of basketball or lacrosse. That's already half the conference.
I, too, meant football. Stanford is the far better program right now.
Notre Dame football couldn't be the "Stanford of the ACC" because they're not in the ACC. We're not talking about out of conference opponents that could be Stanford. I suppose Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc could also emulate Stanford in some way.
Sorry, my bad. Better reading comprehension would help me some.......
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Lou_C - 02-07-2017 12:10 PM
(02-07-2017 11:47 AM)TerryD Wrote:(02-07-2017 11:46 AM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-07-2017 11:41 AM)TerryD Wrote:(02-06-2017 03:06 PM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-06-2017 01:01 PM)TerryD Wrote: If ND ever gets their football act together and gets serious about winning, then maybe ND with its history, tradition, revenues, fan base, etc... could become like Stanford in all sports.
About 15 years ago, ND's then President called Stanford "our aspirational peer".........
I think the premise of the thread was about football.
I don't think anyone was wondering if someone in the ACC could become the Stanford of basketball or lacrosse. That's already half the conference.
I, too, meant football. Stanford is the far better program right now.
Notre Dame football couldn't be the "Stanford of the ACC" because they're not in the ACC. We're not talking about out of conference opponents that could be Stanford. I suppose Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc could also emulate Stanford in some way.
Sorry, my bad. Better reading comprehension would help me some.......
No problem, I'm partially just tweaking you because I know how much you don't want Notre Dame football in the ACC so it's funny that you volunteered ND...
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - TerryD - 02-07-2017 12:55 PM
(02-07-2017 12:10 PM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-07-2017 11:47 AM)TerryD Wrote:(02-07-2017 11:46 AM)Lou_C Wrote:(02-07-2017 11:41 AM)TerryD Wrote:(02-06-2017 03:06 PM)Lou_C Wrote: I think the premise of the thread was about football.
I don't think anyone was wondering if someone in the ACC could become the Stanford of basketball or lacrosse. That's already half the conference.
I, too, meant football. Stanford is the far better program right now.
Notre Dame football couldn't be the "Stanford of the ACC" because they're not in the ACC. We're not talking about out of conference opponents that could be Stanford. I suppose Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc could also emulate Stanford in some way.
Sorry, my bad. Better reading comprehension would help me some.......
No problem, I'm partially just tweaking you because I know how much you don't want Notre Dame football in the ACC so it's funny that you volunteered ND...
I am so "not conference oriented" that I did not even see the "of the ACC" portion of your post.
My mind just apparently canceled out those words.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - green - 02-07-2017 01:10 PM
(02-06-2017 12:46 PM)Lou_C Wrote: nothing really competes with that location/weather.
http://www.youvisit.com/tour/miami?pl=v
University of Miami's ranking in the 2017 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, 44. Its tuition and fees are $47,004 (2016-17).
Located in Southern Florida, the University of Miami has an ideal location for students who love the outdoors. With popular spots like South Beach, the Florida Keys and Everglades National Park nearby, students have plenty of opportunities for water sports, hiking and sunbathing. Downtown Miami, also near to the school, is a thriving sports and cultural center.
-- colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com
I told y'all ...
using your criterion ...
Miami possesses the most potential to be the stanford of the east ...
embodying enviable academic & athletic excellence set in surrealism ...
we live ...
WHERE YOU VACATION
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Lou_C - 02-07-2017 01:21 PM
(02-07-2017 01:10 PM)green Wrote:(02-06-2017 12:46 PM)Lou_C Wrote: nothing really competes with that location/weather.
http://www.youvisit.com/tour/miami?pl=v
University of Miami's ranking in the 2017 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, 44. Its tuition and fees are $47,004 (2016-17).
Located in Southern Florida, the University of Miami has an ideal location for students who love the outdoors. With popular spots like South Beach, the Florida Keys and Everglades National Park nearby, students have plenty of opportunities for water sports, hiking and sunbathing. Downtown Miami, also near to the school, is a thriving sports and cultural center.
-- colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com
I told y'all ...
using your criterion ...
Miami possesses the most potential to be the stanford of the east ...
embodying enviable academic & athletic excellence set in surrealism ...
we live ...
WHERE YOU VACATION
Touche on the location.
However, Miami is not and most likely never will be mentioned in the same breath as Stanford as far as the academic elite.
That's no knock on Miami. But I have kids in this age range.
An acceptance to Stanford is a BIG FREAKING DEAL. Harvard...Stanford...MIT.
When you slap a Stanford offer in front of a kid that's even remotely academically inclined, there is literally nothing that compares or is even close among football-playing schools.
It's very unlikely that there's anything that Duke or UVA or let alone Miami is going to be able to do as an athletic department to duplicate that.
Stanford has it's own mythos now that goes way beyond athletics.
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - green - 02-07-2017 01:52 PM
(02-07-2017 01:21 PM)Lou_C Wrote: Miami is not and most likely never will be mentioned in the same breath as Stanford as far as the academic elite.
That's no knock on Miami. But I have kids in this age range.
An acceptance to Stanford is a BIG FREAKING DEAL. Harvard...Stanford...MIT.
![[Image: about.jpg]](http://umlsp.com/upload/sections/content/about.jpg)
http://umlsp.com/about-us
decades ago ...
http://miami.edu/ was derisively known as suntan U ...
a party school for spoiled children of the elite ...
fast forward to today ...
consensus top-50 academia with a 560-bed umiamihospital.com , 200,000-square-foot outpatient center, life science technology park ...
who knows what tomorrow brings ...
one thing's sure ...
if U dream nfl ...
harvard ain't your ticket out ...
BFD (BIG F_CKING DEAL)
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - Hokie Mark - 02-07-2017 02:52 PM
Miami has no doubt improved by leaps and bounds, but so has Stanford... and it was pretty good to start with!
RE: Could someone be the Stanford of the ACC? - nole - 02-07-2017 03:01 PM
UVA and Duke is the answer.
They don't have the Stanford brand....but they aren't far behind and they have huge $$$$ (not Stanford $ but not far behind).
Both have solid weather location. Not as great as Stanford location, but again, not far behind.
Football is just not their priority like basketball.