(11-28-2015 09:26 AM)brovol Wrote:  There are those who seem to hate pj fleck, and those who, although admitting the guy can come off a little over the top, really like him as our coach. And while his first year was miserable by everyone's standard, let's put the last two seasons in perspective, and assess pj's value to our beloved alma mater.

Last season was, as the kids would say, "fresh". It felt good, and it was clear we had grow tremendously as a team. To me it also appeared that the kids were buying into flecks rtb concept, and the other principles that he hammered, which emphasised the team concepts which are so critical in football, and that manifested itself on the field. We lost some big games, and certainly made mistakes from coaching down to the players, but we were always at least as competitive as we should have been each week, and boy what a fun year it was.

This season probably was less exhilarating for the team and fan base. Expectations were higher, and even the anti pj crowd thought we might win the MAC; something which hasn't happened in Kalamazoo in a long time. But what about this year? A fair examination is appropriate.

We lost games to MSU, OSU, GSU, NIU, and BG. Which among those teams do the anti pj folks think we should have won? The two who are in the top 8 in the country? Probably not. The one who went undefeated in the sun belt last year, and has only lost two this year (when we played them at there place where they never lose)? Maybe? I'm not sure, but for those who want to argue that one, have at it. How about the school that continues to win the MAC as if they are guided by divine intervention, NIU? We played them on the road, but certainly had the opportunity, losing a game I personally do feel we probably should have gone in and won. Or lastly, BG, who I bet every person here would have rated as the best team in the MAC this year, save perhaps Toledo. I think we played poorly in that game, and yet still had some opportunities. Certainly not a masterpiece of coaching from our sidelines, but in fairness, how many think that is a game we should have definitely won? Most counted it as a loss before the season started, a fact which is true for many of our games this year, despite our optimism heading into the year.

We beat our big rival, CMU, and a deserving top 25 team, who schooled bsc teams, including Arkansas. And we did it on the road, when Toledo had everything to prepare and fight for, and even had an extra day to do it. We also beat everyone else, and did that with style and substance.

Fleck recruits so well everyone else in our league has to chase us, at a distance. His kids seem to have character, they have stayed out of trouble, and they like him and what he is doing. He has taken his personal life chalanges in stride, and has never used them as an excuse. He is energetic, and in my assessment, likeable. I would play for him and I would encourage my son to as well. He is willing to take a few chances on the field, but is not reckless either. He also seems to be learning from his experience. He will get better as he ages, I am sure.

Some of the anti fleck folks don't like him because he is so new-school. Others because he sounds like a used car salesman and pushes the rtb thing. Some just liked the old coach so much they refuse to like the new guy. And then one of you just wants to hate for the sake of getting attention; right Letterman?

I like the guy. I like what he is doing. I hope he stays a while. I have enjoyed the last two years, and I don't think this was a bad season at all. In fact, I think he and his coaches (who I think fleck did a nice job choosing) did a pretty good job, even if they did frustrate me several times this year.

We should keep things in perspective.

(11-28-2015 10:16 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  You are allowed to be excited about the direction of the program, be a passionate fan of the team and still shake your head at some of the oddities.

(11-28-2015 09:26 AM)brovol Wrote:  There are those who seem to hate pj fleck, and those who, although admitting the guy can come off a little over the top, really like him as our coach. And while his first year was miserable by everyone's standard, let's put the last two seasons in perspective, and assess pj's value to our beloved alma mater.

Last season was, as the kids would say, "fresh". It felt good, and it was clear we had grown tremendously as a team. To me it also appeared that the kids were buying into flecks rtb concept, and the other principles that he hammered, which emphasised the team concepts which are so critical in football, and that manifested itself on the field. We lost some big games, and certainly made mistakes from coaching down to the players, but we were always at least as competitive as we should have been each week, and boy what a fun year it was.

This season probably was less exhilarating for the team and fan base. Expectations were higher, and even the anti pj crowd thought we might win the MAC; something which hasn't happened in Kalamazoo in a long time. But what about this year? A fair examination is appropriate.

We lost games to MSU, OSU, GSU, NIU, and BG. Which among those teams do the anti pj folks think we should have won? The two who are in the top 8 in the country? Probably not. The one who went undefeated in the sun belt last year, and has only lost two this year (when we played them at their place where they never lose)? Maybe? I'm not sure, but for those who want to argue that one, have at it. How about the school that continues to win the MAC as if they are guided by divine intervention, NIU? We played them on the road, but certainly had the opportunity, losing a game I personally do feel we probably should have gone in and won. Or lastly, BG, who I bet every person here would have rated as the best team in the MAC this year, save perhaps Toledo. I think we played poorly in that game, and yet still had some opportunities. Certainly not a masterpiece of coaching from our sidelines, but in fairness, how many think that is a game we should have definitely won? Most counted it as a loss before the season started, a fact which is true for many of our games this year, despite our optimism heading into the year.

We beat our big rival, CMU, and a deserving top 25 team, who schooled bsc teams, including Arkansas. And we did it on the road, when Toledo had everything to prepare and fight for, and even had an extra day to do it. We also beat everyone else, and did that with style and substance.

Fleck recruits so well everyone else in our league has to chase us, at a distance. His kids seem to have character, they have stayed out of trouble, and they like him and what he is doing. He has taken his personal life challenges in stride, and has never used them as an excuse. He is energetic, and in my assessment, likeable. I would play for him and I would encourage my son to as well. He is willing to take a few chances on the field, but is not reckless either. He also seems to be learning from his experience. He will get better as he ages, I am sure.

Some of the anti fleck folks don't like him because he is so new-school. Others because he sounds like a used car salesman and pushes the rtb thing. Some just liked the old coach so much they refuse to like the new guy. And then one of you just wants to hate for the sake of getting attention; right Letterman?

I like the guy. I like what he is doing. I hope he stays a while. I have enjoyed the last two years, and I don't think this was a bad season at all. In fact, I think he and his coaches (who I think fleck did a nice job choosing) did a pretty good job, even if they did frustrate me several times this year.

We should keep things in perspective.

(11-28-2015 10:16 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  You are allowed to be excited about the direction of the program, be a passionate fan of the team and still shake your head at some of the oddities.

(11-28-2015 09:26 AM)brovol Wrote:  There are those who seem to hate pj fleck, and those who, although admitting the guy can come off a little over the top, really like him as our coach. And while his first year was miserable by everyone's standard, let's put the last two seasons in perspective, and assess pj's value to our beloved alma mater.

Last season was, as the kids would say, "fresh". It felt good, and it was clear we had grown tremendously as a team. To me it also appeared that the kids were buying into flecks rtb concept, and the other principles that he hammered, which emphasised the team concepts which are so critical in football, and that manifested itself on the field. We lost some big games, and certainly made mistakes from coaching down to the players, but we were always at least as competitive as we should have been each week, and boy what a fun year it was.

This season probably was less exhilarating for the team and fan base. Expectations were higher, and even the anti pj crowd thought we might win the MAC; something which hasn't happened in Kalamazoo in a long time. But what about this year? A fair examination is appropriate.

We lost games to MSU, OSU, GSU, NIU, and BG. Which among those teams do the anti pj folks think we should have won? The two who are in the top 8 in the country? Probably not. The one who went undefeated in the sun belt last year, and has only lost two this year (when we played them at their place where they never lose)? Maybe? I'm not sure, but for those who want to argue that one, have at it. How about the school that continues to win the MAC as if they are guided by divine intervention, NIU? We played them on the road, but certainly had the opportunity, losing a game I personally do feel we probably should have gone in and won. Or lastly, BG, who I bet every person here would have rated as the best team in the MAC this year, save perhaps Toledo. I think we played poorly in that game, and yet still had some opportunities. Certainly not a masterpiece of coaching from our sidelines, but in fairness, how many think that is a game we should have definitely won? Most counted it as a loss before the season started, a fact which is true for many of our games this year, despite our optimism heading into the year.

We beat our big rival, CMU, and a deserving top 25 team, who schooled bsc teams, including Arkansas. And we did it on the road, when Toledo had everything to prepare and fight for, and even had an extra day to do it. We also beat everyone else, and did that with style and substance.

Fleck recruits so well everyone else in our league has to chase us, at a distance. His kids seem to have character, they have stayed out of trouble, and they like him and what he is doing. He has taken his personal life challenges in stride, and has never used them as an excuse. He is energetic, and in my assessment, likeable. I would play for him and I would encourage my son to as well. He is willing to take a few chances on the field, but is not reckless either. He also seems to be learning from his experience. He will get better as he ages, I am sure.

Some of the anti fleck folks don't like him because he is so new-school. Others because he sounds like a used car salesman and pushes the rtb thing. Some just liked the old coach so much they refuse to like the new guy. And then one of you just wants to hate for the sake of getting attention; right Letterman?

I like the guy. I like what he is doing. I hope he stays a while. I have enjoyed the last two years, and I don't think this was a bad season at all. In fact, I think he and his coaches (who I think fleck did a nice job choosing) did a pretty good job, even if they did frustrate me several times this year.

We should keep things in perspective.

(11-28-2015 11:05 AM)rtletterman Wrote:  Being a fan and not liking the coach are not mutually exclusive.

(11-28-2015 10:55 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 10:16 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  You are allowed to be excited about the direction of the program, be a passionate fan of the team and still shake your head at some of the oddities.

Yes.

It appears Fleck has matured to the point he realizes this is a performance-based business, and the performance that matters is on the field, not in dance videos or on the "Jim Rome Show."

Players win, not coaches.

(11-28-2015 11:10 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 10:55 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 10:16 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  You are allowed to be excited about the direction of the program, be a passionate fan of the team and still shake your head at some of the oddities.

Yes.

It appears Fleck has matured to the point he realizes this is a performance-based business, and the performance that matters is on the field, not in dance videos or on the "Jim Rome Show."

Players win, not coaches.

I respectfully disagree. I think building successful winning programs in college is about the coach. Some coaches can get real good talent, some can't. Some can coach the players to win, some can't. I am not at the point to anoint fleck as some savior, or a fantastic coach, but so far I am pleased with what is happening, and I simply think he needs to be assessed fairly.

Every coach has a learning curve when he comes to a new school, and particularly a new conference. Even veteran coaches with lots of head coaching experience would have to figure things out with a new team in a new league. Fleck had no head coaching experience at any level. He came here with great passion and, I believe a good philosophy. He isn't doing too bad. I look forward to next year. That's a good thing.

(11-28-2015 11:14 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 11:10 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 10:55 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 10:16 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  You are allowed to be excited about the direction of the program, be a passionate fan of the team and still shake your head at some of the oddities.

Yes.

It appears Fleck has matured to the point he realizes this is a performance-based business, and the performance that matters is on the field, not in dance videos or on the "Jim Rome Show."

Players win, not coaches.

I respectfully disagree. I think building successful winning programs in college is about the coach. Some coaches can get real good talent, some can't. Some can coach the players to win, some can't. I am not at the point to anoint fleck as some savior, or a fantastic coach, but so far I am pleased with what is happening, and I simply think he needs to be assessed fairly.

Every coach has a learning curve when he comes to a new school, and particularly a new conference. Even veteran coaches with lots of head coaching experience would have to figure things out with a new team in a new league. Fleck had no head coaching experience at any level. He came here with great passion and, I believe a good philosophy. He isn't doing too bad. I look forward to next year. That's a good thing.

Absolutely

(11-28-2015 11:15 AM)rtletterman Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 11:14 AM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 11:10 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 10:55 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 10:16 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  You are allowed to be excited about the direction of the program, be a passionate fan of the team and still shake your head at some of the oddities.

Yes.

It appears Fleck has matured to the point he realizes this is a performance-based business, and the performance that matters is on the field, not in dance videos or on the "Jim Rome Show."

Players win, not coaches.

I respectfully disagree. I think building successful winning programs in college is about the coach. Some coaches can get real good talent, some can't. Some can coach the players to win, some can't. I am not at the point to anoint fleck as some savior, or a fantastic coach, but so far I am pleased with what is happening, and I simply think he needs to be assessed fairly.

Every coach has a learning curve when he comes to a new school, and particularly a new conference. Even veteran coaches with lots of head coaching experience would have to figure things out with a new team in a new league. Fleck had no head coaching experience at any level. He came here with great passion and, I believe a good philosophy. He isn't doing too bad. I look forward to next year. That's a good thing.

Absolutely

Iowa State might be looking forward to next year with him too.

(11-28-2015 11:13 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I didn't make that quote (Players, not coaches, win) up.

Guy named Paul Bryant said it.

But then, you would know better.

(11-28-2015 11:42 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-28-2015 11:13 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I didn't make that quote (Players, not coaches, win) up.

Guy named Paul Bryant said it.

But then, you would know better.

Bear Bryant was being humble. Don't you agree? Or do you think it is just coincidence that Alabama wasn't good befor he came, and then became a power after he got there. Or how about nick Saban? Coincidence how bamas prospects changed after he got there. Urban Meyer; did he change things for the better at Ohio state, or was it that those same players he inherited just became better? There are literally countless examples of coaches turning around programs. In many cases they do it at multiple different schools. Don't mistake what I am saying. I am not comparing fleck to the aforementioned coaches.

Furthermore, some coaches have the ability to get better players than others. One thing everyone should acknowledge is that fleck has a personality which is attractive to prospects. That is part of the coaching package, and fleck works hard in that department.

Do players win games? Of course they do. And those players who win games do so because of how the team was coached.