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Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Lord Stanley - 02-17-2010 09:25 AM
Quote:Who is the worst killer in the long, ugly history of war and extermination? Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot? Not even close. A single book called Silent Spring killed far more people than all those fiends put together.
Green Death - the elimination of DDT
Some select quotes from the article
Quote:The Environmental Protection Agency held extensive hearings after the uproar produced by this book… and these hearings concluded that DDT should not be banned. A few months after the hearings ended, EPA administrator William Ruckleshaus over-ruled his own agency and banned DDT anyway, in what he later admitted was a “political” decision.
Quote:The resulting explosion of mosquito-borne malaria in Africa has claimed over sixty million lives. This was not a gradual process – a surge of infection and death happened almost immediately
Quote:The core belief of the environmental religion is the fundamental uncleanliness of human beings. All forms of human activity are bad for the environment… most especially including the activity of large private corporations. Deaths in faraway Africa barely registered on the radar screen of the growing Green movement, especially when measured against the exhilarating triumph of getting a sinful pesticide banned, at substantial cost to an evil corporation.
Then as now, the science was settled… beneath a mass of politics and ideology
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - DrTorch - 02-17-2010 09:35 AM
There's a middle school in Herndon, VA named for Rachel Carson. Always disgusted me.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Paul M - 02-17-2010 09:48 AM
DDT=Good....Liberals ban it.
Nuclear Power=Good....Libs against.
A Warmer Planet=Good...Left-wing nut-jobs prefer man suffering.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - I45owl - 02-17-2010 10:01 AM
So, the claim is that DDT was becoming ineffective for mosquito/malaria control in any event. If so, this line of argument is moot. Has anyone ever read any serious discussion or explanation of whether or not it is true that DDT was becoming ineffective?
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Lord Stanley - 02-17-2010 11:23 AM
(02-17-2010 10:01 AM)I45owl Wrote: So, the claim is that DDT was becoming ineffective for mosquito/malaria control in any event. If so, this line of argument is moot. Has anyone ever read any serious discussion or explanation of whether or not it is true that DDT was becoming ineffective?
The enviornmental science surrounding DDT's impact on birds and frogs was suspect as well, but that mattered not..... :muttering: to the death of millions of people.
Just about every medication or control agent breeds resistance in subjects, and that is certainly a claim against DDT, but I don't believe the argument was moot from the 60's forward when malaria was killing millions. It worked then, and we should have continued to use it to save lives. We didn't stop using anti-bacterial agents and anti-viral medications just because a couple strains survived with increased resistence.
Since it's the same claim against penicillin and other anti-biotics, and we still use them, and develop new strains, why not for DDT?
Using DDT in concert with mosquito nets would potentially save between 1 and 3 million people around the world. (Edit after being properly called out for hyperbole)
Sorry, the banning of DDT has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - I45owl - 02-17-2010 11:37 AM
(02-17-2010 11:23 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: Using DDT in concert with mosquito nets would save move people around the world than anything outside of clean water and (perhaps) ample food stores.
Sorry, the banning of DDT has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.
In principle, I agree. But, it's a pretty extraordinary claim one way or the other, and I think it deserves to be viewed critically.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Lord Stanley - 02-17-2010 11:59 AM
(02-17-2010 11:37 AM)I45owl Wrote:(02-17-2010 11:23 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: Using DDT in concert with mosquito nets would save move people around the world than anything outside of clean water and (perhaps) ample food stores.
Sorry, the banning of DDT has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.
In principle, I agree. But, it's a pretty extraordinary claim one way or the other, and I think it deserves to be viewed critically.
Edited, thanks.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - NIU007 - 02-17-2010 12:24 PM
So, it was banned here. Couldn't it still have been sold in Africa?
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Machiavelli - 02-17-2010 12:34 PM
Do you guys like the Bald Eagle? If so, you ban DDT.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - I45owl - 02-17-2010 01:34 PM
(02-17-2010 11:59 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:(02-17-2010 11:37 AM)I45owl Wrote:(02-17-2010 11:23 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: Using DDT in concert with mosquito nets would save move people around the world than anything outside of clean water and (perhaps) ample food stores.
Sorry, the banning of DDT has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.
In principle, I agree. But, it's a pretty extraordinary claim one way or the other, and I think it deserves to be viewed critically.
Edited, thanks.
That's not what I meant - I think your original phrasing was fine. What I mean is the direct cause-and-effect of banning DDT and the potential that malaria could be eliminated in Africa. That's not a claim that originated with you. Also, the claim that DDT could not be effective against the spread of malaria contradicts basic common sense as well.
The proposition that "political correctness gone mad is solely responsible for banning DDT which could have curbed malaria ..." is something that's been popular among the libertarian/junk science crowd for some time. I think that this proposition deserves serious scrutiny as to whether it is true or not. Otherwise, isn't it just the other side of the same coin with regards to being reactionary?
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - RobertN - 02-17-2010 01:42 PM
(02-17-2010 09:25 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:I think we should spray you with DDT and study the effects.Quote:Who is the worst killer in the long, ugly history of war and extermination? Hitler? Stalin? Pol Pot? Not even close. A single book called Silent Spring killed far more people than all those fiends put together.
Green Death - the elimination of DDT
Some select quotes from the article
Quote:The Environmental Protection Agency held extensive hearings after the uproar produced by this book… and these hearings concluded that DDT should not be banned. A few months after the hearings ended, EPA administrator William Ruckleshaus over-ruled his own agency and banned DDT anyway, in what he later admitted was a “political” decision.
Quote:The resulting explosion of mosquito-borne malaria in Africa has claimed over sixty million lives. This was not a gradual process – a surge of infection and death happened almost immediately
Quote:The core belief of the environmental religion is the fundamental uncleanliness of human beings. All forms of human activity are bad for the environment… most especially including the activity of large private corporations. Deaths in faraway Africa barely registered on the radar screen of the growing Green movement, especially when measured against the exhilarating triumph of getting a sinful pesticide banned, at substantial cost to an evil corporation.
Then as now, the science was settled… beneath a mass of politics and ideology
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - SumOfAllFears - 02-17-2010 01:44 PM
Global Warming or George W Bush is responsible for the 60 million dead in Africa. Libs take your pick.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - NIU007 - 02-17-2010 04:45 PM
So millions of people in Africa died because DDT was banned in the U.S.?
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - I45owl - 02-17-2010 04:51 PM
(02-17-2010 04:45 PM)NIU007 Wrote: So millions of people in Africa died because DDT was banned in the U.S.?
That, and voluntarily withdrawn from the market in Africa. You can try to decide which might be more relevant. Based on this last post, it's not clear that you'll succeed.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - NIU007 - 02-17-2010 05:06 PM
(02-17-2010 04:51 PM)I45owl Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:45 PM)NIU007 Wrote: So millions of people in Africa died because DDT was banned in the U.S.?
That, and voluntarily withdrawn from the market in Africa. You can try to decide which might be more relevant. Based on this last post, it's not clear that you'll succeed.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Lord Stanley - 02-17-2010 05:23 PM
(02-17-2010 04:51 PM)I45owl Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:45 PM)NIU007 Wrote: So millions of people in Africa died because DDT was banned in the U.S.?
That, and voluntarily withdrawn from the market in Africa. You can try to decide which might be more relevant. Based on this last post, it's not clear that you'll succeed.
African nations had their Western aid tied to the non-use of DDT. Talk about the devil's choice......
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - NIU007 - 02-17-2010 05:28 PM
(02-17-2010 05:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:51 PM)I45owl Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:45 PM)NIU007 Wrote: So millions of people in Africa died because DDT was banned in the U.S.?
That, and voluntarily withdrawn from the market in Africa. You can try to decide which might be more relevant. Based on this last post, it's not clear that you'll succeed.
African nations had their Western aid tied to the non-use of DDT. Talk about the devil's choice......
That is pretty bad.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - SumOfAllFears - 02-17-2010 07:19 PM
(02-17-2010 05:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:(02-17-2010 05:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:51 PM)I45owl Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:45 PM)NIU007 Wrote: So millions of people in Africa died because DDT was banned in the U.S.?
That, and voluntarily withdrawn from the market in Africa. You can try to decide which might be more relevant. Based on this last post, it's not clear that you'll succeed.
African nations had their Western aid tied to the non-use of DDT. Talk about the devil's choice......
That is pretty bad.
Here it comes, wait, wait, Here it comes.......
Must have been GWB's fault.
Kill people to save the mosquitoes.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Paul M - 02-17-2010 07:22 PM
(02-17-2010 11:23 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: Using DDT in concert with mosquito nets would save move people around the world than anything outside of clean water and (perhaps) ample food stores.
Sorry, the banning of DDT has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.
You should edit back to this. DDT was one of the greatest improvements to public heath ever.
Along with mosquitoes, it kills flies, lice and fleas. Besides saving people from malaria, other diseases such as yellow fever, encephalitis, typhus and bubonic plague are dealt a blow.
RE: Green Death - the elimination of DDT and the global environmental con - Paul M - 02-17-2010 07:29 PM
(02-17-2010 05:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:(02-17-2010 05:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:51 PM)I45owl Wrote:(02-17-2010 04:45 PM)NIU007 Wrote: So millions of people in Africa died because DDT was banned in the U.S.?
That, and voluntarily withdrawn from the market in Africa. You can try to decide which might be more relevant. Based on this last post, it's not clear that you'll succeed.
African nations had their Western aid tied to the non-use of DDT. Talk about the devil's choice......
That is pretty bad.
Most African countries depend on others to pay for malaria control and those countries including the US wont pay for DDT, and global health organizations like WHO are against using it.