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+---- Thread: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 (/thread-386293.html)
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FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - SumOfAllFears - 09-09-2009 08:43 PM
FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan
By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER (AP) – 45 minutes ago
WASHINGTON — The change was subtle, but significant. In his speech to Congress on Wednesday night, President Barack Obama gave a more accurate — and less reassuring — account of the impact of his proposed health care overall than he has done in the past. It went by in a blink.
He told Americans that nothing he is proposing will force businesses or consumers to change their existing insurance coverage. That much is true.
It's also true that nothing in his plan guarantees that policies people have now will continue to be available in the same form. In earlier accounts, he spoke with unmerited certainty in saying people who are happy with their current insurance can simply keep it.
Other parts of his speech repeated some of the oversimplified claims that have marked his salesmanship. A look at some of his assertions Wednesday night:
OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have. Let me repeat this: Nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have."
THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.
In the past Obama repeatedly said, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period." Now he's stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan "requires" any change.
He's dropped the "period."
___
OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies "makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives."
The facts: Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it. That's because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they're relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.
The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall."
That doesn't mean preventive care doesn't make sense or save lives. It just doesn't save money.
___
OBAMA: "If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage."
THE FACTS: It's not just a matter of being able to get coverage. Most people would have to get coverage under the law, if his plan is adopted.
In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.
He proposed during the campaign — as he does now — that larger businesses be required to offer insurance to workers or else pay into a fund. But he rejected the idea of requiring individuals to obtain insurance. He said people would get insurance without being forced to do so by the law, if coverage were made affordable. And he repeatedly criticized his Democratic primary rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, for proposing to mandate coverage.
"To force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh penalty," he said in a February 2008 debate.
Now, he says, "individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance — just as most states require you to carry auto insurance."
He proposes a hardship waiver, exempting from the requirement those who cannot afford coverage despite increased federal aid.
Associated Press writer Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - GGniner - 09-09-2009 08:44 PM
There were alot more lies than that to go over
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - SumOfAllFears - 09-09-2009 08:47 PM
Yes, but this was out 20 minutes after he finished. I wonder about the patient he got letters from, I bet they are pure fiction.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - claytonbigsby - 09-09-2009 08:49 PM
I'm so mad that I won't be able to sleep for 3 hours!
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - GGniner - 09-09-2009 08:54 PM
its almost amazing how dishonest and blatant about it, that he is, but all the while knowing the MSM will let most all of it pass and play defense for him.
He's a postmodern, why I've posted about the Platonic "Noble Lie" that they believe in
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - SumOfAllFears - 09-09-2009 08:57 PM
The illegal alien thing that he got booed for is a lie. They have no plan for them EXCEPT MAKING THE ILLEGAL ALIENS CITIZENS.
He is such a fraud.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - Owl 69/70/75 - 09-09-2009 08:57 PM
Liars lie.
That's what they do.
Why are you surprised?
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - SuperFlyBCat - 09-09-2009 09:03 PM
(09-09-2009 08:57 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: The illegal alien thing that he got booed for is a lie. They have no plan for them EXCEPT MAKING THE ILLEGAL ALIENS CITIZENS.
He is such a fraud.
Obama heckled by GOP during speech to Congress
WASHINGTON – The nastiness of August reached from the nation's town halls into the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday as President Barack Obama tried to move his health care plan forward.
South Carolina Republican Rep. Joe Wilson shouted "You lie!" after Obama had talked about illegal immigrants.
It wasn't the only interruption during Obama's speech to a joint session of Congress in the House of Representatives. Earlier, Republicans laughed when Obama acknowledged that there are still significant details to be worked out before a health overhaul can be passed.
Wilson's outburst caused Obama to pause briefly before he went on with his speech. Overhead in the visitors' gallery, first Lady Michelle Obama shook her head from side to side.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - SumOfAllFears - 09-09-2009 09:16 PM
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - GGniner - 09-09-2009 09:29 PM
Quote:“To be truthful means using the customary metaphor — in moral terms: the obligation to lie according to a fixed convention, to lie herdlike in a style obligatory for all.”
— Friedrich Nietzsche
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - smn1256 - 09-09-2009 09:30 PM
(09-09-2009 08:57 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote: The illegal alien thing that he got booed for is a lie. They have no plan for them EXCEPT MAKING THE ILLEGAL ALIENS CITIZENS.
You beat me to it. If you make the entire world US citizens then there are no illegals.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - Artifice - 09-09-2009 10:23 PM
(09-09-2009 09:16 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:
Quote:OBAMA: "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." One congressman, South Carolina Republican Joe Wilson, shouted "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber when Obama made this assertion.
THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.
Douchebag AND wrong. Double fail.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - Paul M - 09-09-2009 11:04 PM
That must be why the democrats said no when Republicans tried to insert language that explicitly said that.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - SumOfAllFears - 09-10-2009 01:07 AM
Orifice, as usual you are espousing the loony left propaganda machine talkingpoints. Obama himself has said since June that his healthcare bill will cover 47 million uninsured. That number include those here illegally. You know, numbnuts, you gotta get away from that ObamaAssCrack to let some light in, it's affecting you bigtime. Or maybe it's your Messiah who is just so good at math, remember the unemployment numbers? The 200K threshold for Tax, 95% will get a tax cut and he was way off on the revenue numbers. Oh, and he is taking credit for bringing the country back from the edge with the stimulus that no one has seen anything from. BTW, Remember George Bush really did send taxpayers a check. Additionally, his $900 billion number has really no relation to reality. You cannot cover 47B more people without spending more money. And if they could wring out that much money out of Medicare, waste and fraud, why did they not do it already? or do that first? Well, ObamaSavior, thannks fur nuttin on that tort reform issue, liar. Obama is all about the lie.lie,lie. Who could trust him, Orifice can. One O to another.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - Paul M - 09-10-2009 01:32 AM
47 million, no illegal coverage. No illegal coverage, 47 million. Hmm, your right Sum. Something is not adding up.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - GGniner - 09-10-2009 08:17 AM
Possibly one of the most Orwellian speeches ever given from that podium, I can't beleive how Partisian he went with it. He's trying to bully the Blue Dogs into passing this crap-sandwhich.
stupid strategy
personally I don't think Wilson let that line fly just because of the Illegal Immigrant line, Obama was in the midst of one long partisian finger wagging calling his opponents Liars, and he didn't start off with Illegal immigrants.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - GGniner - 09-10-2009 08:38 AM
Quote:OBAMA: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period."
THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.
House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it - the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.
When will Obama, Mr. "Post-Partisian", apologize to the country for calling a Joint Session of Congress and as President of the United States condscendingly, and repeatedly call his Opponents liars?
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - Paul M - 09-10-2009 08:46 AM
(09-10-2009 08:17 AM)GGniner Wrote: Possibly one of the most Orwellian speeches ever given from that podium, I can't beleive how Partisian he went with it. He's trying to bully the Blue Dogs into passing this crap-sandwhich.
stupid strategy
personally I don't think Wilson let that line fly just because of the Illegal Immigrant line, Obama was in the midst of one long partisian finger wagging calling his opponents Liars, and he didn't start off with Illegal immigrants.
That was the impression I got also. But the moonbats on here say nothing of Obama falsely calling everyone on the planet liars, but they go apeshit when someone correctly identifies the liar.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - griffen - 09-10-2009 09:40 AM
Wilson should hold to his comment and not back away. In fact...he should use it to go on the offensive. Conservatives around the country support what he did. He used the same word as Obama did throughout the speech.
RE: FACT CHECK: Obama drops iffy line on health plan -- 09/09/09 - DrTorch - 09-10-2009 10:35 AM
(09-10-2009 09:40 AM)griffen Wrote: Wilson should hold to his comment and not back away. In fact...he should use it to go on the offensive. Conservatives around the country support what he did. He used the same word as Obama did throughout the speech.
I agree. Backing off and apologizing makes him look weak, and actually gives the impression that Obama is correct: his opponents are giving knee-jerk reactions.
Wilson should start a very vocal campaign citing all the evidence to demonstrate he's being truthful.
One thing that people don't remember well is Americans expect their leaders to be assertive. Reagan was assertive. Bush 41 was assertive w/ Dan Rather. Rather looked like a fool. Bush 43 was assertive.
Quayle, Dole, Gore, McCain...all lacked that principled assertiveness (for varying reasons). They all lost the election too.