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+---- Thread: Madman Madoff (/thread-353232.html)
Madman Madoff - nomad2u2001 - 03-10-2009 05:35 PM
He deserves it.
[url] http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/business/11madoff.html?_r=1[/url]
RE: Madman Madoff - smn1256 - 03-10-2009 05:51 PM
He's 70 years old. Any sentence he gets will be far shorter than the life of luxury he led.
RE: Madman Madoff - niuhuskie84 - 03-10-2009 10:31 PM
He wasnt "mad". He Knew exactly what he was doing.
RE: Madman Madoff - SumOfAllFears - 03-11-2009 11:54 AM
WHERE'S THE MONEY?
RE: Madman Madoff - Hambone10 - 03-11-2009 01:28 PM
He's pleading guilty because some of it was labor union money.... where you gonna run??
In a Ponzi scheme, the profits were fictitious, but the losses were real... IOW... if he was given $1mm and lost 500k, but reported a 500k gain... then there is $1mm in "fake" money and only 500k in real money. so he gets an additional $1mm and turns it into two... the original $1mm is now reported as $3mm and the second $1mm as two, but there is only $2.5mm in real dollars and 5mm reported. Had he played it straight, the original investment would be back to $1mm and the second investor would have doubled his money. By all accounts, Madoff regularly reported above market returns, but in reality had WELL below market ones.
RE: Madman Madoff - WoodlandsOwl - 03-12-2009 07:45 PM
Watch the Feds go after the wife and kids next. It was all a "Family Business"... and there is some money stashed somewhere.
I put the over/under on his survival in Federal Prison at 10 Months.
RE: Madman Madoff - Rebel - 03-12-2009 08:30 PM
He deserves to be dropped off in the Peshawar region of Pakistan with only a butter knife to protect himself.
RE: Madman Madoff - WoodlandsOwl - 03-12-2009 08:38 PM
(03-11-2009 01:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: He's pleading guilty because some of it was labor union money.... where you gonna run??
In a Ponzi scheme, the profits were fictitious, but the losses were real... IOW... if he was given $1mm and lost 500k, but reported a 500k gain... then there is $1mm in "fake" money and only 500k in real money. so he gets an additional $1mm and turns it into two... the original $1mm is now reported as $3mm and the second $1mm as two, but there is only $2.5mm in real dollars and 5mm reported. Had he played it straight, the original investment would be back to $1mm and the second investor would have doubled his money. By all accounts, Madoff regularly reported above market returns, but in reality had WELL below market ones.
At his plea today he said he had been doing it for 17 years. How in the hell can you pull this type of scam for this long?
Perhaps some SEC Enforcement people were paid off along the way?
RE: Madman Madoff - Hambone10 - 03-13-2009 11:52 AM
(03-12-2009 08:38 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(03-11-2009 01:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: He's pleading guilty because some of it was labor union money.... where you gonna run??
In a Ponzi scheme, the profits were fictitious, but the losses were real... IOW... if he was given $1mm and lost 500k, but reported a 500k gain... then there is $1mm in "fake" money and only 500k in real money. so he gets an additional $1mm and turns it into two... the original $1mm is now reported as $3mm and the second $1mm as two, but there is only $2.5mm in real dollars and 5mm reported. Had he played it straight, the original investment would be back to $1mm and the second investor would have doubled his money. By all accounts, Madoff regularly reported above market returns, but in reality had WELL below market ones.
At his plea today he said he had been doing it for 17 years. How in the hell can you pull this type of scam for this long?
Perhaps some SEC Enforcement people were paid off along the way?
I suspect a decent percentage of these assets were un-registered securities. This is too obvious, but... a condo complex he says is worth $5mm that he paid $2mm for... accounted in the portfolio at $5mm cost... An investment in a private company in the Bahamas?? what is the SEC going to do?? Go inspect the property?? That's not what they do.
I don't know how they do it... but it can be done if you have someone willing to falsify a statement. We don't know that Madoff didn't simply show the SEC one statement, and send another to the clients.
RE: Madman Madoff - SumOfAllFears - 03-13-2009 12:05 PM
Face it, after Enron, WorldCom, AIG, AA, and all the rest, the SEC is asleep at the wheel, they care nothing about policing Wall Street. Trillions of investor dollars have been lost and I don't see anyone doing the perp walk. Except for Madoff, Skilling and Lay, SEC they did nothing. They are a bloated ineffective, useless, Bureaucratic, wasteland. For the life of me, I do not know how anyone could trust what corporations, brokers or analysts tell us. You got better odds in Vegas. Wall Street has the deck stacked against the adv. guy. Their "hold for the long term" advice just creates a platform for them to make money. It's all a facade. Billion of dollars lost and the middle class has effectively been robbed of their security, money, and future. Retirement has become an illusion for those already retired or within 6 years of retirement.
RE: Madman Madoff - EastStang - 03-13-2009 12:41 PM
I think two things. (1) Despite numerous reports about Madoff from some of his customers and analysts, the SEC didn't do anything. (2) With modern derivatives, futures, credit swaps, hedge funds, which no one really understands, and the fact that every Prospectus basically says, "don't buy this security or you'll lose your shirt.", I think it would be pretty easy for a good con man who talked the lingo to concoct a Ponzi scheme with new money funding old money for a long period of time, before anyone caught on.
RE: Madman Madoff - Fo Shizzle - 03-13-2009 09:18 PM
This guy is total scumbag and deserves whatever punishment he gets...but.. So are the bureaucrats of the SEC that sat on their asses and allowed this to occur. Why is nothing being done to punish these scumbag bureaucrats?....OH...I forgot about that "sovereign immunity" that the government has.
